Your opinion on a new contest: Triple 8 ask for a helmet design
nfreischlad on Tuesday November 3rd, 2009
25
Contest News
Hey jovoto people, we need your opinion!
We’ve been talking to a super cool company from New York called Triple 8, an old school supplier of protective gear for snowboarding, skateboarding and other wheeled sports.
Part of the Triple 8 philosophy is to work closely with its sponsored team, distributors and customers to create new products and designs. This has worked well despite competing with much larger design and product development organizations. No surprise then, that they’re interested in launching a contest at jovoto: they really understand the advantage of working with a pool of creative talents and receiving feedback on their products.
The idea we came up with for this contest is to ask you people for designs and artworks for two of their bestselling products: the brainsaver skateboard helmet and a snowboard helmet with…yes..!!… with audio ear flaps so you can listen to your music in style while you ride.
Judging from our experience, this is a task that you should enjoy, but the reason we’re asking for your opinion is that Triple 8 has a slightly different compensation model in mind than what we’re used to at jovoto.
- The community prize will be $1,000. (That’s right, US dollars) . We know this is not a large prize for the community.
- However, in addition to the prize, Triple 8 agrees to produce samples of selected designs and offer these online and to their retail customers. The designs that result in orders will be paid a 5% licensing fee per unit.
- Typically helmets are sold to retail customers at $20, so at 5% license fee, the license fee paid to the owner of the design would be $1. (So if 10,000 units are sold, the license fee paid to the designer would be 5% x $20 x 10,000 = $10, 000!!)
So what do you think? Does the task sound exiting, and is the compensation model fair? Give us your thumbs up or down so we know what you want! But let’s decide quickly, leave us your comment here until the end of the week…!
Why hello young fella! image courtesy of Triple 8
Joel
I like the task and I would be in. The Dollar/Euro issue is just too bad ;(
squalidsketch
Hört sich interessant an, kann auch lukrativ werden bei einer Beteiligung von 5%. Doch wie transparent ist das ganze? Wer gibt die Garantie?
mephusio
It’s almost always good to explore new ways of doing things and therefore I would very much like to see this contest go forward.
With this new compensation model the user is probably not driven by the community prize but the simple possibility of earning much more (not only fiscally) if the design is successful. The calculation showed that things could go wild and I think, that is definitely an incentive to take part. Additionally it might help to shift the focus to the briefing and pleasing the client rather than (only) the community. Whether or not it’s fair is hard to say. It could go both ways, which is an exciting dare but I am sure we are all pretty adventurous. Personally I can’t find a reason based on the compensation model to not take part. Hence, go for it!
Hendrik
sounds fair to me. When will it start?
maggo
give it a try
alxander
it sounds fine… it’s a good balance between the advantages and disadvantages… great opportunity
hannes dolde
sounds interesting,
would be good to know what sale numbers triple eight is expecting… 2.00 unis 20.000 units?
and for how long the designer will get the fee.
if fee is only paid within the first year or for as long as the helmets/designs (if adapted to newer models later) are available.
playground for sick illustrations…sounds fun
(honored to be titled as “senior” jovoto member
chers hannes
decuriel
Ich mag die Idee und denke, dass es ein interessantes Modell für einen Contest ist, aber ein paar Zweifel sind mir dann doch gekommen.
Wenn man die Gelder mal in die uns vertrauten Euro umrechnet, mit denen die meisten von uns unser Leben zu bestreiten haben, dann sieht es nicht ganz so rosig aus, wie man auf den ersten Blick annehmen möchte. Das Gesamtbudget für die Communitypreise läge dann bei 667 EUR und im Erfolgsfalle bekäme man 68 Cent pro verkauften Helm. Andererseits könnte man das auch damit rechtfertigen, dass die Aufgabe nicht so komplex ist. Ich kann aber nicht einschätzen, wie fordernd die Aufgabe sein wird/kann.
Ich denke aber gerade auch daran, dass der deutlichste Unterschied zwischen jovoto und den ganzen anderen Crowdsourcing-Plattformen im Community-Preisgeld liegt. Wenn man diesen Part zugunsten einer (potenziell) höheren Belohnung im Verkaufsfall (pro Einheit) reduziert, kommt mir das sehr verschieden vom ursprünglichen jovoto-Gedanken vor (oder zumindest meinem Verständnis davon). Dagegen könnte man setzen, dass es bei jovoto einfach um Fairness geht und wenn dieses Contest-Modell eine faire Belohnung für eine gute, oder besser: erfolgreiche Idee bietet, dann ist alles gut. Allerdings muss man hier sagen, dass es unvorhersehbar ist, ob es am Ende fair sein kann bzw. wie fair es sein kann. Aber klar, um faire Modelle zu finden, muss man auch ausprobieren.
Einen Versuch wäre das Ganze auf jeden Fall Wert, aber ich finde da sollte Triple Eight vorher noch eine Angabe zu den bisherigen Verkaufszahlen der Helme machen. Ich denke nur so kann man eine Vorstellung davon bekommen, wie realistisch das oben stehende Rechenbeispiel ist und ohne eine solche Angabe wäre eigentlich auch jeder folgende Contest dieser Art in Sachen Fairness (r)eine Glückssache.
decuriel
I like the idea and I think it’s an interesting model for a contest, but there are some diffident thoughts coming to my mind as well.
If you convert the currencies the numbers don’t look as attractive as they are at first glance. The Overall contest prize money would be around 677 EUR and with every sold unit you would get about 68 Cent. On the other hand: Maybe one could justify this by saying that the task is not as challenging as in contests with a higher prize money. I don’t know, is it?
]
But let’s not forget that the most definite difference between jovoto and every other crowdsourcing plattform lies in the community prizes. If you reduce this part in favor of a (possibly) higher reward for selling the actual unit (not the idea), it is very different from the original jovoto thought or at least my understanding of it. Countering this one could say “jovoto is all about fairness” and if the model can offer a fair reward for a good, or better: succesful idea, it’s allright. But it is unpredictable how fair this model will turn out to be.
Of course we have to explore new ways of dealing with ideas in order to make it fair and I generally think it is worth the try. BUT Triple Eight should offer some numbers regarding how many helmets have been sold so far. Based on that we could get an impression of the likelihood of the sample calculation above. Without this information the degree of fairness would always be unforseeable with this kind of contest, which means: it’s only potencially fair.
dreaminbox
Excitin. I like this idea. I think it make us a part of the company. They will share their gain in selling products which we designed. That a perfect idea. I think many of people will join this competiton. I will also
JeskoStoetzer
Hey Triple 8 guys ! = )
It´s nice to welcome internatianal customers on jovoto !
Introducing licensing systems in contests is a very interesting task that i appreciate very much.
As Triple 8 is the first one suggesting it here, its cool that jovoto and you ask for feedback.
You will get a huge amount of cool designs for your product, as the community seems to love your product – and the way you introduce it here !
Here are some ideas for you, that might help a bit finding the best way for everybody:
I. My personal experience is, that the higher the community-budget, the better and more submissions you get. – Maybe you could upgrade the budget ? You won´t regret ! OR:
II. As jovoto always tries to support best circumstances for the designer as well as for the customer:
What do you think of a garanteed minumun amount of pieces you produce of the desgin you will buy ?
III. As crowdsoucing works so excellent in interaction with custumers:
Is there any way to let your own customers see or rate the designs as well?
It´s an excellent indicator for market succsess !
Thrilled to see what comes up !
Kind regards ! yours, jesko
JeskoStoetzer
Nochmal kurz auf Deutsch:
Ich finde es toll, wenn internationale Kunden sich für jovoto interessieren und spannend, neue Lizenzmodelle auszuprobieren.
Ich glaube der Kontest und Vorschlag wird von der Community ausgesproochen gut angenommen
und der Kunde wird sicher eine Vielzahl cooler Entwürfe für sein Produkt bekommen.
Ich habe oben gefragt was der Kunde davon halten würde das Budget für die Community upzugraden,
da es nach meinen (persönlichen) Erfahrungen bei größeren Budgets wesentlich mehr und auch interessantere Beiträge gibt, da (wie auch Decuriel meinte ) das Budget ja erstmal nicht so üpppig ausfällt. : )
Weiterhin habe ich gefragt, was der Kunde davon halten würde, vorab ein Minimum der Stückzahl zu garantieren, die er bei einem Verkauf auflegen will, damit es auch im Sinne von Jovoto´s Philosophie für den Designer und Kunden möglichst faire, klare und vorallem kalkulierbare Bedingungen gibt.
Um das für den Kunden einfacher und attraktiver zu machen habe ich zu guter Letzt noch gefragt, ob es für den Kunden nicht interessant sein könnte die Entwürfe auch seinen eignen Kunden einsichtbar zu machen oder bestenfalls in einer Form auch bewerten zu lassen (z.B auf Ihrer HP), da Crowdsourcing in Verbindung mit KundenFeedback/Rating ein gutes und meistens auch sicheres Indiz für Markterfolg sind.
Das könnte die Kalkulation einer realistischen erfolgreichen Mindestauflage, denke ich, ganz gut untermauern.
LG, Jesko
bunterberg
Hi Jesko – as usually you’re engagement comes along with some good thoughts. Good to have you in this discussion. Let’s see how Triple8 responds to your advice.
Bobby O [Founder Triple 8]
Thanks everyone for support and feedback. It seems like most people are excited about this – we’re excited to get started.
To get to some specific questions:
@squalidsketch
On the transparency issue, we have a similar model in place with different partners like our pro skaters and some organizations like 5boro (skateboard company). In these cases, we provide quarterly royalty reports that detail sales to our customers.
@hannes dolde, @decuriel, @JeskoStoetzer
We would not introduce a design if we weren’t planning an initial order of 600 units, so lets say this is minimum. Assuming this is somewhat successful, we would expect volume of 1,200 to 1,800 units within 12 months. We have designs that do much better, but this is on par with other uniquely designed helmets like 5boro http://www.triple8.com/shop/product/5Boro-Pigeon-League-Skateboard-Helmet which is a good comparison, we think.
As long as we are selling the design the design, we will pay a royalty. The typical cycle for unique designs is 18 to 24 month, but obviously some work is more timeless.
@JeskoStoetzer
We are going to ask customers and distributors to participate in the process, specifically to vote and rate designs as well.
wordwarrior
EINFACH machen. Einfach MACHEN.
Gruß
Geerdes
Let’s try it. It rests with each designer to decide whether or how much work is to invest.
bunterberg
so let’s get it rollin, ehh?
decuriel
Thumbs up to Bobby O, great response =)
Considering this kind of transparency it sounds well omend and I think this can be a well working contest model.
tomasio
Good answer from the founder of triple8, I think this could work. If I find the time and have the right idea I will think about a design.
bunterberg
okay decision made, we’ll announce the contest soon – thank you everyone for this fruitful conversation.
Triple 8 contest – ready to roll!
[...] okay decision made, we’ll announce the contest soon – thank you everyone for this fruitful c… [...]
JeskoStoetzer
@Bobby O:
Thanks a lot for your openness and response. I am sure you will get great results.
All the best for the contest !
As i am trying to support jovoto to be and stay the most fair crowdsourcing platform on the net –
let me give you one last inspiration to consider with bastian for the fine tuning :
I guess you calculate the licensing fee by SOLD units. You could split it and give a first payment to the designer when you buy it and recalculate it with the first licensing fee. It will be fun, doing designs for you ! But otherwise the designer takes the full risk of a pitch plus the risk of his deisgns being sold plus waiting a couple of month for the first payment.
I am thrilled to see the contest starting on Monday Nov. 16 and i wish you amazing designs and a thrilling contest!
yours jesko
Addie
How long will you be accepting designs
Aaron Macpherson
Hey! this sounds really fun!! when do we start???
nfreischlad
@addie and aaron: thanks for your interest! The contest has been up and running since nov. 16th and we’re accepting designs/artwork until decemeber 16th. can’t wait to see your ideas