okay, it is just an idea to use cardboard tubes & milk cartons (tetra pak) and I love the look of the cardboard inside ...
here are some information about cardboard architecture:
and here is a video about recycled milk cartons:
okay it's spanish and I understand nothing, but I think he says something like:
The process begins with the shredding of the packages. Shredded pieces are soaked in water then placed in a mold the size of a full-length board before passing through the machine that dries the board. The boards from the packages contained exactly the same elements that the original cartons had. No chemicals were added during the process. The shreds were bound together by the plastic that was already a component of the original package. When heated, the plastic melted and spread, binding the other components.
Exactly - while getting shredded, the last bit of liquids (juice, milk etc.) is being removed and the plastic and aluminium is being separated from the cardboard. It's not that obvious to me though if they put only the aluminium and plastic into the pressing machine or the cardboard as well (as they're talking about the use of the cardboard later on). The machine puts pressure on the material and heats it up to 180degrees. The outcome is laminate. They seem to have factories all over South America, but they unfortunately don't mention prices.
That's a very intriguing approach, iLines! Any information on how fire resistant that material would be? I'm also looking forward to seeing how you solve stability and durability issues. Great start, curious to see your updates!
i now a lot about this process. there are not many places in america that recycle tetrapaks because it isn't economically sound. so the reality is that it all ends up in landfill. most americans that wish to recycle tetrapaks have no place to take them.
tetrapaks are made from ridiculously thin layers of material. you can't peel them away from each other without it tearing. so the only way to separate the different materials is to shred it and gravity sort it. the cost of reclaiming these materials is just too high. if it were economically feasible, there would be more people buying the used tetrapak containers.
so in reality tetrapaks are nonrecyclable. anyone that tells you differently is lying.
the structure probably will have a little 'problems of stability and durability, but it's a wonderful idea!
Thanks silviasim ... I will work on the structure ; )
YESSS!!! GREAT IDEA iLINES!!!
I HAVE A LOT OF MILK TETRAPAKS AND THIS TUBES RECICLED FOR A PROJECT...
SOME WALLETS AND TUBES COMPOSITIONS!!! THEY WORK REALLY GOOD!!!
THERE'S A LOT OF THIS PRODUCT CONSUMPTION WORLDWIDE AND IT'S A NEED TO GET RECICLED TO USE THEM IN SOMETHING THAT COULD HELP!!! THIS COULD BE THE CHANCE!!!
THIS IS AN AMAZING IDEA!!! GOOD WORK!!! KEEP GOING!!!
Thanks a lot Xavier! Would be interesting to know how complicate / expensive the recycling process is. Do you have some information for me?
I would be worried about every little flame or fire and also about the smallest wind gust... but I think this could be solved with different design.
They mention in the video that it is hard to make this material affordable, do you know anything about it?
Great stuff here... keep going!
Just one thing about your interpretation of the process. They actually separate the paper from the pack in the beggining. So the final material is only aluminium and plastic.
hey oxelot, thanks for your thoughts ...
Yes, the design will be the key for stability ... see here: (examples of cardboard buildings) http://www.google.de/search?um=1&hl=de&site=search&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=shigeru+ban&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
Unfortunately I don't know something about the costs for the recycling of tetra pak. The information I've posted above are from here: (they say it is cheaper than plywood) http://en.greenmedia.md/at-tetra-pak-trash-gets-a-new-lease-on-life-193.html
your cement foundation alone will deplete the budget. and the rest of your plan lacks any structural integrity.
... and she already acknowledged above that she would have to work on the structure. any idea how to solve stability issues here?
plenty. but the most economical way is with steel where available. a skeleton of steel is the approach i'm taking on my project. if she just wants to show off and cares nothing for the poor, she could also use two perfectly matched telescoping sizes of cardboard tube pieced together to make a long rigid beam. but if you can order those tubes, you may as well order rebar.
... et voilà: she added a skeleton of steel :)
yes ; ) Thanks teigan!!
And thanks Nathalie for the translation of the video above!
nathalie sure is smug when she's sober; and in multiple languages.
I noticed that you´ve been watching at Shigeru Ban designs, he has a shelter built with cardboard tubes you can have a look at it.
ah thanks, I knew his paper dome in japan, the school in china and his bridge ... but now I found the shelter ... and a really interesting website with some more inspiration:
The Accordion-Like ReCover Shelter looks interesting, too ; )
Thanks I will have a look to it.
Your milk carton & cardboard idea reminded me that a lot of houses in the USA for the past 50 years have been built partically of paper,or covered with paper siding.A large part of the house I live in uses a board underlayment made of old news papers for the support for the stucco siding.
As was pointed out to me---it's a cost factor. That's the rock I have no answer for--unless building materals are given for free(as in harvesting) the house cost too much.
Great Idea, was my first thougt, too. Because i was working for Daimler in packaging development. They send Trucks in parts to diffrent countries in cardboard packages. This packages where used in these poor countries for there homes because they got an PE liner in the cardboard so they are waterproof. The complete package could withstand 2t of pressure with an inbuild woodframe. nice idea!
wow! thank u very much! for the super inspiring links! iLINES ! and ur design is a very practical demonstration of the sweet tec :)
Now my cardboard / milk carton house has a skeleton of steel. The cardboard tubes are threaded on the reinforced steel. And I gave up recycled milk cartons but simply use unfolded milk cartons stapled on the cardboard tubes ; )
And if the cardboard tubes were arranged vertically?
I call this one "off the wall".
Good Idea? or Bad Idea?
Not sure but an interesting idea.
Pretty primative so far.
i liked your idea....but my concern is......in developing countries, milk is generally not available in cartons...!!!
Using the tubes in an horizontally way you are missing one of they main properties of them, its strenght to bear compression forces if working in the vertical axis. If your front and back facades have the tubes layout vertically you probably won´t need to reinforce that facades with steel.
I have to agree with Flegido, you'll lose their structure properties.
Yup, you both are right ; (. I will upload another version with vertical tubes (next week ...).
another problem. it isn't easy to bend steel bars or tubes into a precise curve without either complex equipment or craftsman level skills. at very least you'd need to set up a simple forge to heat the metal, then a sculptor could get the shape you need with trial and error. you may be able to design around an already manufactured aluminum curved tent pole product. you'd need to use more of them, but it would hold up your building without problem. you needed more ribs in your structure anyway to keep your roof going saddle shaped.
hey taigan, ah okay, I was afraid that it's too difficult to bend steel. I will rethink the shape of the house ... maybe something triangular (three vertical walls and one slanted wall/roof ...
another question (off topic): do you know a transparent cheap rigidly durable material? I want to build a greenhouse for my garden and I don't want to use foil (looks awful ; ) Do you have an idea? Thanks in advance!
an A frame is a very easy structure to erect. it doesn't have much living space though. the kamaboko shape you were attempting would be better if you can pull it off.
for your greenhouse you can use extruded polypropylene. they use it for bus shelters and shading in parking lots. it slowly yellows over time due to UV exposure, so just buy clear yellow to start with. extruded polycarbonate would work too, but it is difficult to cut. it will tend to chip and shatter.
i think i solved your idea. why not make the arc bends as a tension structure. in other words, you take flexible thin diameter rod and let it take a natural arc. then all of them will be the exact same shape just by cutting to the same length. you'll need to space them about 3 per meter. and because it is a tensioned structure you can stretch a canvas over it as weatherproofing.
you will need to use my mini piers though to anchor the rods and keep them tensioned. you can have the pier design/engineering credit free. ask flegido for details.
hi teigan, sorry for my late answer. At the moment I'm under stress and I don't have the time for jovoto ; (
Thanks a lot for your thoughts. Your suggestion sounds interesting and makes sense. But I won't rework this idea.
Also thanks for your material suggestion for my greenhouse. We decided to build a roof for my tomatoes this year and next year we will extend it to a greenhouse with extruded polypropylene ; )
glad i could help. very sensible of you making jovoto a low priority. i'll be deserting too for lack of interest.
hello ilines, this arc shape is very space-consuming, dont you think ? wouldnt your design work with another shape better? something with 90deg angles.
Also, in some 3rd world countries, milk is not sold in carton boxes have you thought about this? I am not so sure about toilet paper either ... i dont know.
Curious for your answer :)
in most countries milk is sold in goats or sometimes cows. in canada it is sold in plastic bags. what's up with that?
hi banieramartina, sorry for my late answer. I wanted to build another shape (see hidden comments above ; ) but unfortunately, I do not have the time.
I've though that tetra pak has products in almost every country. On their website they say that tetra pak is represented in more than 150 countries. Mh.
Meanwhile this material is also sold as rolled goods. 75 sq m for 36,- EUR (without shipping). (Tetra pak is not only used for milk but for wine, juices and all other non-refrigerated products).
And I didn't use toilet paper cardboard tubes but carpet tubes (see description on the pictures). They are really stable and usually have a length of 4 m.
Cover it in goat hide. Kidding. What a great idea. I love the use of the carpet tubes and the arch, very strong. Depending on the weight, could you stuff those tubes with discarded clothing for insulative purposes? There are all kinds of waste products out there to cover it with like traps, shipping container cardboard, lumber wraps. How expensive would the steel beams be? I like it.
I'm sorry, tarps.
Very much innovative idea! As I had seen earlier in another idea similar to that of yours but that one was constructed with cylindrical plastic mesh.. And this time I'm watching yours, milk carton and cardboard! Really out-of-the-bound idea! Great, u hit the nail on the head, a real sixer! :)
Hey, I hadn't seen this before. Too bad you haven't had a lot of time to expand on it, but this concept of using trash is great. If tubes are available, and can be kept dry they can be very strong. Many living in slums use cardboard and scraps of plastic and metal.
I could see these tubes just knotted together. If the base is anchored and the macrame ties are tight, will it have some strength? Or rebar could be bent...
Make exelentes materials chosen to build ! The paper tubes are very strong ... tubes could have been Bamboo ? You thought ... the issue ... of combustible materials ? See ::: Paper Log Houses, 1995-2001
Better approach to the problem. Using air as insulation also helps when your short of cash. http://StyroHomeNEWS.blogspot.com