Agencies of the Future

Co-create a model for the agencies of tomorrow. €0 prize pool

Co-create a model for the agencies of tomorrow.

Background

Together with the 10 partner agencies Fork Unstable Media, TLGG, DDB Tribal, Red Rabbit, Philipp & Keuntje, CE&CO, Häberlein & Mauerer, Entega, Kleiner & Bold and TBWA, as well as jovoto, Crowdworx, Good School und frührot, the independent trend and transformation consultant Jörg Jelden is examining how agency models in the communications sector will look in the future.
We have purposely chosen to use the broad term of ‘communication agencies’. By this we don’t just mean advertising agencies, but also branding, PR, event, social media and digital agencies.

This is a joint think-tank project without any direct commercial objectives. It should initiate a broad dialogue about the future of the communications industry and pave the way for the first changes. New ways of organizing agencies, structuring working processes and earning money will be examined. The focus is not on the creative product, i.e. communication or advertising. It is not about the debate of digital vs. classic, but about questions of how to deal with more transparent organizations, freelancers, dynamic working, virtual teams, knowledge exchange, motivation, values, co-creation, cooperations, product development, development and marketing of own intellectual property (e.g. content, apps, services, products), the separation of the idea and realization, measurability of services...

As well as the ideas contest Jörg Jelden will be interviewing pioneers and experts from the industry. A social forecast on the subject will also be made together with Crowdworx. The results will be published in autumn 2012.  

The ideas contest on jovoto should bring ideas and approaches to life, combining new suggestions and the most diverse perspectives. At the focus are broad visions, wishes, ideas and solutions from the creative community. Models for the future should be created together in co-creation.

The most exciting concepts will be discussed in a workshop with the agency partners. Your submissions will of course be highlighted during the presentation. The agency partners will be actively involved in the ideas contest by following your ideas and discussions.

Aim:
We are looking for the most diverse positive future designs for agencies. But this contest is not about the future of advertising, nor is it about the question of social media, print or content. At the focus of the project is the question of how agencies organize themselves and their work, what their working processes are like and the ways in which they will earn money in the future (retainers, project business, licenses, product development, rights of use...)

Interesting questions to be answered are: how you would convince your client to incorporate new aspects into their work, how it would feel for you as a creative to work in these new agencies, what would your future daily working routine involve and what demands would be placed on you as an employee, on partners or clients by these new agencies?

Task Definition

Have you ever asked yourself how communication agencies could be more motivating, more personable and future-oriented? Or what the everyday routine might entail in a communication agency of tomorrow? Show us what these agencies look like and how it feels to work with and for them! Develop ideas how agencies could be organized differently, how they would work and how they could earn money. Show what makes these agencies so attractive and unique that you would want to work there yourself.

We are looking for short stories, illustrated stories, comics, songs, films that illustrate the life, output and working processes of future agencies.
These stories can feature people such as the boss, managers, clients, friends, partners etc.

It is important that these submissions show future concepts and have a good story. They should differ from concepts of the present day. Your submissions should be visionary and pragmatic. On the one hand it is important to think big and freely. On the other hand, everything new starts off small. Your ideas should therefore also feature the small, initial steps and everyday activities and daily routines.

Target Group

  • all kinds of creatives,
  • agency staff,
  • agency owners,
  • CEOs,
  • agency clients

Tonality

  • positive,
  • encouraging,
  • inspiring,
  • thinking outside the box

Mandatory requirements

We are looking for positive, visionary and pragmatic approaches, not science-fiction ideas that are out of touch with reality. They should be futuristic enough, but also have a relevance to the present day. They should be pioneering and at the same time be rooted in the daily routines of the future. By future we mean a time period of approx. 5-10 years. Your solutions should refer to a timeframe between the years 2017 and 2022.

This project is only about finding new working processes, organizational structures and business models for the agency of the future and not about the future of the creative product of the agencies, i.e. the future of advertising or communication.

Userful link:

Comments

Show older comments (58)

Klingt alles super! Und was ist der Preis? Der Workshop mit den beteiligten Agenturen? That's it?

Ich denke, nicht einmal das?"Die spannendsten Konzepte werden in einem Workshop mit den Agenturpartnern diskutiert. Hier werden Eure Einreichungen selbstverständlich namentlich vorgestellt. " - namentlich vorgestellt wäre ja nicht nötig, wenn man vor Ort ist.:)

Der Preis ist, dass die Agenturen der Zukunft bald um so besser wissen, wie sie uns Kreativen ausschröpfen können :D Ich bin dabei, super Idee, 10*

Hey MSTR, I understand the task the other way around. The agencies are re-thinking their structures and they are asking you on your opionion on that. What do agencies have to change that you would feel comfortable to work with them? Or what are the reasons for now that you wouldn't work for them? What are the problems and how can they be solved?

The way I understood it, Open Zone projects were meant for non-profit causes that helped the greater good. Where's the greater good?

A prestigious think tank that results in some well-published and promoted papers, where every jury member is getting paid in one way or another. Or is this done in their private time, with travel expenses coming out of their own pocket?

Nope, it's the creatives that are expected to chime in for free. Again. Why do you even need any more input? Isn't this where the "creative scene" is headed in any case?

Work for free, for some vague promise of being a part of "the next big thing", or seeing your name in print, or getting more work in the future...

Oh, and if you cannot pay the mortgage, just work in catering... it's all for the greater, creative good.

Hey CrossTheLime, big compliment! I couldn't have said it any better!!!!!

Interesting discussion. Great!

I absolutely see your point CrosstheLime. But since this model is not good in your opinion, what would be a good model then? Are you preaching "openness and online innovation" here? Or stay with the old model of agencies?

I am not against redefining agencies per se! I am mainly against using an Open Zone project to do so. :)

All of us work for free so many times, either through spec work or for friends or charities. It is hurtful to have Jovoto claim this project is for some greater good, when actually it is another case of the big boys using the small creatives to promote their agenda - and getting rich, while we struggle, day in and day out.

As for the project. Personally, I think true crowdsourcing has a great future, once we can find a way to actually renumerate different creatives working together on one project. That is the main challenge all crowdsourced platforms face. It isn't really crowdsourced, since we obviously cannot truly work together - we all gotta pay our bills.

Take logo design on 99D. Many times, the best result for the client would be combining two concepts. But that cannot be done, since only one designer can win - there is no way to split the prize.

The way agencies are now, I wouldn't want to work there. Too much hype, too many hours, too much time spent on some hipster vibe where everyone claims to be oh-so-individual, while everyone looks the exact same. And yes, I have agency friends.

I am off to do some paid work now. :)

Funny enough, my mortgage won't pay for itself, and my brother expects me to spend app. $1000 on traveling to his wedding in September. Pretty mean, since I haven't had the money to go on vacation in app. 6 years, ever since I gave up a big-shot career in marketing and traded it in for burnout syndrome.

And I am one of the lucky ones, since I now have a well-paid, stable part-time job in marketing, combined with freelance work - my fridge is never empty, I get to choose which projects I work on, and I actually have time for friends and family. Life is good.

Auch wenn hier kein Bares im Spiel ist würd ich den Benefit anführen. ;-)

Wie wäre es mit diesen? ;-) - Die Agenturen können dich kennen lernen und du sie. - Du kannst einen bleibenden Eindruck hinterlassen. - Deine Wünsche und Ideen können gehört werden. - Man wird einmal gehört. - Chancen könnten sich ergeben - Es besteht die Chance etwas zu bewegen. .... ;-)

OK und jetzt mal realistisch... Die Art wie Agenturen seit Jahren funktioniert haben scheint der modernen Zeit immer weniger angepasst. Kunden gehen neue Wege und die Agenturen verdienen nicht mehr so viel wie früher und wissen nicht genau wie sie gegensteuern sollen. Was hier versucht wird ist ganz einfach mit geringst möglichem Aufwand das Schiff wieder in ruhiges Fahrwasser zu bekommen. Das Agenturen sich auf einmal für die Kreativen interessieren und nicht nur für das Geld glaubst Du doch nicht ernsthaft oder? Der Wolf im Schaafspelz ist hier wohl eher der passende Vergleich. Die einzigen die aus diesem Projekt hier Profit schlagen sind die Agenturen und Herr Jelden, der das Projekt angestossen hat. Selbst wenn er mit diesem Projekt noch nicht direkt etwas verdienen sollte. So wird er die Erkenntnisse zukünftig, in seiner Tätigkeit als Berater, an die Agenturen, für ein entsprechendes Honorar weitergeben und das auf unsere Kosten. Ich finde es vorsichtig formuliert sehr zweifelhaft das uns jovoto das ganze hier auch noch als große Chance verkaufen will.

Sehr schön formuliert, H20.

Ich erinnere mich dunkel, dass einmal vorgeschlagen wurde, mögliche Open Zone Projekte der Community vorzustellen und dann abzustimmen, welche online gehen.

Ich denke, der Vorschlag könnte gerne noch einmal auf den Tisch kommen. Denn ob die Jovoto-Community dieses Projekt als "worthy cause" gewählt hätte, wage ich zu bezweifeln.

Da wage ich mit! Ich sehe wir reiten beide die selbe Welle und ich freue mich sehr, mit Dir den Ozean zu teilen!

Hier ist noch Platz für viele andere!!!!

Stimme euch voll zu, Cross und H2 - es ist traurig, dass ein Open Zone Project, das ursprünglich mal für Non-Profit-Ziele gedacht war, nun für Agenturen missbraucht wird, die uns Kreative hirnen sehen wollen, ohne selbst einen Finger krumm machen zu müssen.

Würde mich sehr interessieren, ob die das auch alle kostenlos machen? Ich bezweifle es.

Und ja, ursprünglich sollten wir mitbestimmen dürfen, welches Open Zone Project generiert wird. Nun, Jovoto wusste vermutlich, dass die meisten Kreativen gegen dieses Projekt gestimmt hätten.

Für mich gibt´s nur zwei Möglichkeiten: boykottieren oder Protest-Beitrag. Wobei mir eigentlich meine Zeit zu schade ist, überhaupt mit zu diskutieren - schließlich muss ich eine Familie ernähren...

Kann mich nur anschließen.

@mikaR: Na Gott sei Dank! Ich dachte schon ich muss mir Sorgen um Dich machen.

@Janne: Protestbeitrag kommt für mich auch nicht in Frage. Aber ich werde mich bemühen ein paar Leuten verbal in den Hintern zu treten! Ich finde es ist schon ein Witz das ein Consultant ein open zone projekt bekommt. Die Consultants die ich kenne verienen alle deutlich mehr als ich!!!

@Stephan: Darfst gern für mich mittreten - hab momentan weder Zeit noch Kraft dafür. Aber genau das ist es, was mich auch so ärgert - ein Unternehmensberater kriegt nen Open Zone Contest - unglaublich.

@Janne: Mach ich gern! Ich hab eigentlich auch keine Zeit aber für einige wohl gezielte Hiebe, werde ich sie mir nehmen, versprochen!

Hey guys,

this project is running as an Open Zone project. We estabilshed the Open Zone format to run small scale crowdsourcing projects. Our goals is to give artists, musicians, social causes and other grass-roots initiatives the chance to discuss and solve a broad variety of problems.

In contrast to our other projects Open Zone projects require no prize money or handling fee. The format is an invitation to all those people who want to particpate simply because they believe in the inititiave and who want to help filing our future.

Besides your ideas on how agencies should be designed in the future the conversation and exchange of thoughts and views on agencies are also highly important.

I'm looking forward to seeing your submissions and the discussions around!

:) Ich seh es schon vor Augen: Das digitale, interaktive Kreativ-Großraumbüro! Und jeder Kreative hat eine Nummer - nämlich eine IP-Nummer :)))

Hey DENKdifferent, your comment sounds like you are not a big fan of digital, interactive open-plan office. So what would be the perfect enviroment for you to work in?

@DENKdifferent: Keine MAC Adresse? Die wär Weltweit einzigartig. ;-)

Hi Britta! Look at my text - there are smileys :))) It was a cynical joke, but I really think, that this is our future - digital open-plan office. Similar as Jovoto, perhaps. But in the future-agency the client can choose his own creative-team and work with them together. Look at my egg-idea ;)

Hey DENKdifferent, but what would be the perfect alternative in contrast to digital open-plan office?

Hey everyone, I am very excited to do this research project together with you and I can´t wait to be part of the debate around new concepts. It is a very good idea to invite some of you to the workshop. So far it was our plan to discuss the different concepts and name five winning ideas during our meeting in August among many other topic related to the research project. Please let me keep this idea in mind until we know more about the agenda of our next workshop. Cheers J

I truly believe that you are excited to do this research project. Because as a consultant, you will make money with the results. Sooner or later, right?

i think the frustration comes from giving someone the ideas that could be fundamental in creating a huge business for someone else and gradually having no control whether or not they will be compensated if their idea gets brought to fruition.

on the other hand it is important to discuss the values of working together to create ideas that fundamentally improve the social context in which we all work in, to create a better way to communicate and share ideas with eachother because we want to.

We must come together to be able to create a trusting discussion that nobody wants to steal ideas , just discuss the possibilities that would improve the way we communicate together and to reduce inequality in the workplace.

Indeed Courtnay, right now i am working on a business concept with two collague's and we believe that the method we are creating will bring better designs in the future. Also with this method we are trying to give the client a choice. For example he got all the freedom and if he want someone else to change our design, no problem at all! (We are a software developing company) This is just one of the ideas and we believe that our idea is not a world changer, but it is quite an unussual way of working and we can sell it to our clients. Which also like the concept of freedom.

We noticed that especially with website designer people keep the sources and when a client want something changed he needs to pay for every change. We created some concepts to improve these small irritations. But like others allready said for me it is not interesting to publish the complete concept, because others may use it or can develop it faster than we can. When it works it won't be a secret anymore!

Right now we are working everything out and from this friday we will move to our first officespace. From there we will start a "trial" run and maybe in a year we can publish our success / failure story.

I do believe in a trustfull environment with a good discussion. We can all learn from eachother, but there is always the fear of loosing your great design to a competitor. Especially in an appraisal market!

Theodore
over 6 years ago

Dear Jury, dear Jovoto,

If you really want to know how the agencies of tomorrow will be, please first know, who the creative people of TODAY are. Take into account what they think, how they work, and learn something about their working environment. Learn something about the work-life -balance, concerning people in the creative industry TODAY. Learn to PAY for your needs, learn to RESPECT creative workers. Learn something about FAIRNESS. Learn EVALUATION and not devaluation.

THINK ABOUT CREATIVES AS CRUCIAL PARTNERS IN YOUR BUSINESS TODAY, THAN THINK ABOUT HOW YOU WILL WORK WITH THEM IN THE FUTURE.

BE FAIR AND HONEST TO THE CREATIVE COMMUNITY OR DO IT YOURSELF!

Useful stuff: Should i work for free by Jessica Hische http://www.shouldiworkforfree.com/

http://vimeo.com/13114483

Spec you! Why Designers Should Never* Work For Free seen o http://www.nikibrown.com/designoblog/2009/04/16/spec-you-why-designers-should-never-work-for-free/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YQu0292dftA#!

Hey Theodore, very good point! But please do tell us, who the creative people of TODAY and maby even of tomorrow are. What is your working envirorment now and how should it be? What does work-life -balance, fairness, respect, etc. etc. mean for you.?

Very good point, Theo.

hey Britta, in my opinion YOU and the jovoto Network you are working for are knowing best how creative people of today work and what kind of needs they have today and in the future. Your experience with the people on jovoto is evident and you even present the creatives of today throughout interviews and little presentations. how about a jovoto poll with exactly the questions you asked theodore...that would be a good start for a closer look on creative work today and in the future. What do you think?

I also would like to provide my thought in this small discussion. I believe that the freelancers market will grow immensively. I also became a freelancers just a few months ago and mainly i am working from home, but i am working together with two others and that is why we have decided to rent a office space. We found a cheap place, because it is empty over an year and to be sure nobody will (i don't really know the english word for it) take it without permission they rent it to small company's cheap.

We decided to rent a big office space, but we will give other freelancers a place to work. This was also part of my idea in the Tablet. Rethink Hotels contest. With this space i believe we can work together and share work. I do need a place to go to otherwise i am distracted easily. At this moment there is a lot of competition in the market and a lot of assignment are offered through appraisals. This makes it more competing and i think the ones that will collaborate will survive. It is not the first branch that will go down with the arrogance of being the biggest. Just look at the building industry (The Netherlands) the recession created a gap between expense and income and a lot of companies fall like sparrows on a hot summer day.

Hey Theo, you are my man!!!

Sounds like an interesting project, but only on first sight. If you were really interested in a fair future for creatives and their work, you´d reward our contribution to this project. Since you don´t, I guess it´s just another attempt to get most profit with minimum effort at the expense of the creatives.

Sorry, guys, I won´t be able to take part - I´ve got to feed a family.

@janne I think that this is a cool initiative to have an open discussion about what works and what does not work in the creative world today. The world is changing and former untouchable rules are changed. It's an extremely interesting discussion how this will shape the future of creative work. Somebody here already mentioned the movie Press Pause Play. I highly recommend watching it. http://www.presspauseplay.com/

I think jovoto is a perfect platform to have this discussion because jovoto, and also you guys -the community- are already somehow part of this change. I think the discussion that you, and the others are having here is the key take away. Not necessarily a brilliant business model that pops out of here.

Understanding each-other is everything, and that is exactly what this is about.

Cheers, Jeroen

Imho, you are missing the main point - who initiates the discussion, and who profits from the results.

It's the agencies, The ones that will use the outcome in future pitches, promotions, research papers, and client relationships. The same ones that usually cry wolf that their profits are going don due to crowdsourcing. We are the sheep led to slaughter.

What's in it for me? I am not interested in saving the agencies. And I sure ain't interested in working for them, neither free nor paid.

I think you are doing a grave injustice to the creatives that keep Jovoto alive and in business. We already spend hours, days or even weeks on pitches, without a guarantee of payment. We cannot even protect against clients that take parts of our entries and use them for future brainstorming or campaigns - how are we to know?

Instead of valueing our work and input, you try to squeeze more and more out of us. This time in the form of a so-called not-for-profit project. Of course it's for profit - it's for the profit of the agencies.

@CrossTheLime : You name it, again!!!!

@Jeroen: I understand your positive attitude, but discussions won´t pay my bills - that´s it.

@Cross: I absolutely agree. The agencies are those who´ll profit the most. I won´t support this either.

Actually this discussion should be the other way round: the agencies could give their opinion on what they expect from the future. But asking questions is so much more convenient...

I would like to see the proposals of the jury in a few well-designed charts. Perhaps we could improve their approach to tie it or something :)

Genius Rocket is an innovative model; sort of a hybrid between Jovoto and a traditional agency:

http://www.geniusrocket.com/#model GENIUSROCKET IS A CREATIVE VIDEO AGENCY POWERED BY A CURATED CROWD

Also: Giant Hydra, similar I think.

When the big agency tell me how my future will be, than I join :)

It's all pink unicorns and cotton candy, don't you know? :)

Of course, it is right, that many agencies face massive challenges and that new ways of working and earning are needed. That is why we explore new realms, structure it and spark a debate. Nobody will receive straight recommendations or results that can be applied one to one into existing daily business. We intend to build a common vision on how we want to work and how we would future agencies to be.

The results will be published for free. So anyone can use it and take the most out of it. Of course, it is possible that some agencies will ask me to present results or consult them. Anyone of you, who hands in a winning concept can and will do the same. And if we manage to have a fruitful debate we can demonstrate first hand, that Jovoto and crowdsourced creation is an essential part of agencies of the future.

So I think you found the best solution in this project :

"Jovoto and crowd-sourced creation is an essential part of agencies of the future."

Now you write an e-mail to all agencies and share your great idea.

Agencies can still place there projects in jovoto as other clients do. Then they pay for it and the whole community works highly motivated for the agencies.

But there is nothing for nothing in this life.

Let's go back to Jovoto's original blog post. http://www.jovoto.com/blog/de/2011/03/open-zone/

"Initiated by an individual or group and not associated with any company or formalized organization"

"Non-profit all the way, the projects must be of artistic or social nature"

Nope, no dice.

"Published for free" is hogwash. Companies do it all the time, for some brand-building PR, interviews, articles, and fame. The people involved are doing it on company time, and all costs are covered by company funds.

One look at the jury here confirms that - none of you are doing this on your own time, money, or from the goodness of your heart.

Just because profits might not be tangible or financial from the outset, does not make this not-for-profit.

You are fine doing this for fame, since your paycheck comes no matter what. You might even have some vague "let's build something amazing" poppycock in the back of your mind. But the main motivation is building recognition and brand for your company, and making more money down the road.

Now take the creatives. No-one pays our bills while we work on this. Apparently, our work is up for grabs, free for all - since we won't be the ones raking fame and fortune.

Sure, our name might be mentioned in some paper or some article eventually, unless the editor forgets to include that. And yes, talking from personal experience here.

That doesn't pay my mortgage. It doesn't fill my fridge. It doesn't pay for my Adobe license.

I am flabbergasted that so little value is placed on our time, experience, and work. Then again, I probably shouldn't be, since that is the norm nowadays.

You want crowdsourced? Crowscourced does not mean that content is provided by the swarm, yet only the queen bee has the expertise to present and monitize the findings.

We are the swarm. And we will make your outdated, arrogant business model obsolete. Will it take 5-10 years? Who knows. But it is coming. And yu have every reason to be afraid. Agencies are dead.

jovoto is nothing like a swarm of bees. it is more like a human centipede joined in a circle with each winner's lips sewn on to ass of another winner.

When John had his very first hour of mathematics, the teacher asked: when 5 sparrows sitting on a roof and a hunter shoots a sparrow - how many sparrows remain? John knows first to reply : zero!!!!!!! The teacher asks puzzled: zero??? John: Yes, of course, frightened by popping all sparrows fly away.

The teacher: this is not the answer I wanted to know. But I like it how you think. ...

The joke goes on, but i guess, we don't want to waste our time ... *-))

Why would you turn around and insult the creatives? Makes no sense.

Guten Tag Everybody,

I am new on Jovoto but I already know the subject and experienced problems regarding to crowdsourcing and its principles by myself. In an hour of little frustration I wrote a way too long copy on:

"Crowdsourcing of Ideas - Why You Should Always Pay the Crowd" (http://adfuture.posterous.com/why-you-should-always-pay-the-crowd please read it and let me know what you think)

This time the case is different and I already told some of the initiators* that I respect their attempt to open the discussion because "for the topic openness is king; but for the skeptics + newworkers rewards are half the battle".

And I don't necessarily mean ca$h; at least not in the beginning of the debate.

*Disclaimer: I know JJelden (member of the jury and one of the project initiators) personally; we never worked together.

The classification of the project as an open zone project is a bit unfortunate of course. Anyhow, this is more a problem for Jovoto and the credibility of the category "open zone" than for the objective of the project.

BUT:

Let's try to be proactive, it seems like we are all are trying to point the project in the same right direction.

Finally somebody bigger than us is trying. And there is no shame for tempting. So let's try to spare ourselves the usual backlash and the usual frustration which forced us to leave former agencies.

We all know the reason why we are doing things differently nowadays: because we can!

Why not think about this specific research project like a true possibility to let more people and institutions know on how they can improve and do better. It’s sharing, not hiding, right? (@courtnay pointed out the need to create trust, thx).

Let's pretend you have right now the opportunity to share your experience and your needs (!) as newwork avant-gard. There is a window of opportunity that some of well-known/big/German/international agencies/networks are willing to understand how creative #newworkers work & think (@Theodore pointed to the problem);

... and that rewards accelerate better ideas :)

btw: I think there is a good chance of handling the project flexible (or should I say agile?) So maybe bounties come closer if everyone comes up with REALISTIC & PRACTICAL ideas for rewarding the whole project?

Best, @dmanduzio

dmanduzio, thanks a lot. Could you please explain the idea of agile rewarding?

Looking at all these posts, it looks like agencies are wolves taking advantage of poor creatives, but look again, and it also seems creatives are greedy whores on a street corner... I mean this as no offense to anyone who has posted, it's purely sarcastic :P Now, I agree with the argument that there is a lack of commitment from the agencies towards this project. I don't think that having no rewards is a problem, but rather, and somewhat similar to what was already mentioned above, rewards don't necessarily need to be cash and this seems to be the misconception from creatives. As for agencies, well, it seems like a half-assed attempt to explore the future of agencies if agencies of the present are only investing so much into it, and again I'm not talking $$$. What I believe is that if agencies really committed to this project they would offer some kind of recognition, not a reward, not cash, but at least the promise or hope of taking measures to make the winning ideas come true and of course collaborating with the winners. This may be naive but if they're really trying to find out how to change the world then they should be committing to employing these ideas and not publishing them. And, wow, things have gotten out of hand eh, let's be friends and play nice, shall we? :)

Thank you, Dmanduzio & diegopalmeiro. Your input may turn the discussion into a new direction. I will talk to my partners and encourage them to take a more active part in the discussion. As these people have extremely tight schedules they won´t be able to be here a lot, but a least say hi and comment occasionally.

From what I have experienced so far, they all have a strong interest in changing the situation and take action. They have shown a great openness and a lot of fair play. If some of you come up with striking ideas, I am absolutely certain that some of my partners as well as a lot of other agency leaders who are following this discussion will start to collaborate with you. But of course, this is a matter of mutual trust. So let me talk to my partners and let at least some say hi. But this may take 2-3 days.

Even before the idea competition started we have been thinking and talking a lot with Jovoto about other kinds of rewards, that are non-cash. But as these need to work for participants around the globe, it is not so easy to announce them in advance. We are working on that one! Please be patient and trust us to be fair.

The Answer ist YES!!!!! .....but first......

.. it's not a question of fair or trust!! - Trust in what exactly? Trust that you read and discuss some ideas? Nice try *-))

  • It's a question of respect!

But to turn the discussion into something POSITIVE: I trust you, that you don't know:

  • Jovoto is a very good place to waste even kill time ( not yours and the time of your partners, of course.)
  • I even think, it's just nothing but another time-killer to have your partners in
    such an useless discsussion.

Useless? - YES !!!!

  • The question of a agency and future is one of the oldest and of course, it's worth NOTHING!

  • Because you're not even interested in any real future solution. Any "solution"
    is already around everywhere. The result of chaos can't be planned.

  • (the fact, that it can sell very well. is just a little point you forgot to tell us ;-))

  • anyhow, we just have to trust - not think ...

  • So why spend money for chaos?

  • You prefer to throw an unfinished Brief to a group. ( The most unfinished
    brief i every seen - just trust me, i saw briefs you can't believe *-))

But Yes!!*-)) I gues the brief is just a prove of system and Jovoto is just pure waste of time.

Nice idea, and frankly, I like the idea;-))

Thnak you and good buy

Oh, "these people have extremely tight schedules"? What an insight. So have we. And we are not just saying "Hi". We give you reasons, why we won´t spend our time on your project.

Saying good bye as well, Janne

it's laughable that the jovoto community is calling themselves "creatives". no wonder this project is considered open zone. you get what you pay for. sometimes less.

imo, the jovoto community is not to compare with a professional agency. actually, jovoto is more a ¨toy¨, a playfield for ¨creatives¨. as client i would tell my agency, do the first step (brainstorming/idea finding) with jovoto and after that, start working. the priceperidea value is unbeatable. but this openzone is more about the future of how ¨creatives¨ will working well.

*-) I love you all !! and yes, the creative future is not working well . trust and fair are words, thank you and good bye.

@ taigan I & some others of "We" need you for the next generation, so please don't die away. not too early!

I think we all would like to hear some more reasons.

Some statement from Jovoto why they considered this project to be within their previous definition of what an Open Zone project should look like.

Some statement from the agencies why exactly they want a project/ brainstorming like this. How was this pitched internally? How did the jury members come together?

I am probably beating a dead horse here. But I am honestly hurt that Jovoto considers this a not-for-profit, social or artistic endeavor for the greater good, a worthy cause where we should be happy to work for free.

This has the bitter aftertaste of Jovoto offering some sort of trial project to potential clients, in order to prove to the agencies that we are worthy of future, paid projects for their clients.

To avoid these kinds of discussions in the future, I would really love to have a monthly vote - where we, the creatives, decide which of the proposed projects we would love to see as the next Open Zone. There must be hundreds of charities and artists dying to get the exposition and input a Jovoto project generates.

Agree. And considering that we just had a bad experience at the PayBack Contest with an agency using a jovoto idea without paying for it, it´s the conceivably worst time for jovoto to generate a non-profit project in the name of agencies...

I'm sure, we have to be proud to be asked , 8 years ago agencies asekd skateboarders and Dj's about the future :-)) ...

Ugh, I missed that one.

But that's the risk with any contest. Take Mobile.de - how are we to know if elements of our pitches are used? We won't be following their HRM efforts, will we? And ideas (or naming, btw) cannot be protected in any way.

Totally agree that it would be great to vote on open zone projects. I would love to work free for an environmental or animal related cause such as the greenpeace project or something similar. Something we can believe in and feel good about. I have no interest in this project at all for all the reasons already mentioned. In particular, the most recent agency fiasco with my idea.

I think in the future more creatives should work together. The agencies are only as good as their staff. But the staff are there to deliver the good work NOT the famous agency. In the future it should be possible, that you work across the agency and not by this time-wasting pitches trying to make each other destroyed. And I think jovoto makes it already very good! Here you have the opportunity to work with a team of creative people from all over the world. And one learns from the other. In an agency you can't choose your colleagues – unfortunately - but at jovoto you can :) The only problem is that everyone can watch us at work. Our work and ideas should be protected. And this very soon!

at jovoto, the protection you need is a diaper to guard against the crap leaking out. there is nothing of value here to steal. the only theft that happens is internal to jovoto.

eat your words and change your diaper kiddo. Apparently there are ideas here worth stealing. I'm a victim. Remember>? My idea is live on the internet right now so check yourself and get your facts straight.

GENIUS! :D (eat your words... lol)

you have no idea as usual. and one of us happens to work for jung von matt and thus has 100% accurate facts. you are a retard.

I totaly agree with you Denkdifferent. and also I think, that every idea in here should be more protected.

I will be happy to participate! The solution lies in the way you are organizing work and fortunately we are working on a model for that!

I am not an expert in unions, but I work in the movie industry and am a member of the The International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, Moving Picture Technicians, Artists and Allied Crafts (IATSE). I can say the union does an amazing job providing benefits, excellent wages and working conditions for it's members, who are basically freelancing craftsmen. It seems a similar international umbrella organization would be useful for freelancing creatives in terms of establishing collective bargaining strength, ensuring fair wages, protecting ideas, and ensuring powerful industries like entertainment and advertising can't take advantage of it's workers.

me too. just have an 'extremely tight schedule' right now, so not sure when i can set it up;)

Interesting. here in europe, we have many graphic design associations, but its more a quality-label for a better orientation. clients can browse trough memberlists and choose the favourites. What would you do if one member steals another members idea?

u mean on here? jovoto should be policing that.

oh, if u mean in this hypothetical union, then a member could be kicked out for that. nobody works on a feature film in the US if they're not in the union, so people abide by the rules.

but, if a client wants to work with a designer, because he trusts him, and this designer is not in the union, what would happen? today, to produce something, you don't even need great (expensive) equipment. mac, digital camera and the adobe suite and you're ready to rumble... same in music industry. i don't have to be a musician anymore to make music. it's not that easy...

@cyan74. I think you do forget a really important part. You can buy a lot of great stuff to work with. But ..... it´s the creative mind that makes the design and don´t forget that even Adobe software can´t develop an idea. You can´t win the Olympics only by buying a pair of running shoes.

Yeaaa - You are right "PRODEO" a good pair of shoes isn´t enough - 2:1 - ;-))

@prodeoweb. yeah, agree with you. its exactly what i mean. its about the union-idea of tobiasvon. my thought was there, if a designer is not in this union and a client wants to work with him, what would happen? its exactly like you said, the equipment alone isn't working... who decide which design is good and which design is bad? imo, it's the market / success. and not if you're a ¨real¨ designer or musician. i know people who writes books/articles without being in any ¨writer¨-school. for sure its a lot easier to do a good job, when you know what you're doing...

HERE JUST THOUGHTS I WROTE LAST DAYS AT THIS PROJECT BLOG, I DIDN'T KNOW HERE WAS THE REAL DISCUSSION, SO HERE IS MY LAST POSTS:

Friday June 8th, 2012 06:10 PM

IT’S REALLY FUNNY THIS THEME “AGENCY OF THE FUTURE”… MAYBE THEY JUST HAVE TO DISAPPEAR AND LEAVE EVERYTHING IN THE HANDS OF THE CREATIVES IN ALL RANGES, FROM THINKER, INVENTORS, DESIGNER, ARTIST, SCIENTIST, EVEN MATH PEOPLE OR BUSINESS PEOPLE BUT WITHOUT THE AGENCY WALLS!!!

AS AGENCIES MOST OF THE TIME ARE BUILT BY “MONEY PEOPLE”, “NOT TO SMART” AND “NOT HONEST” HUMANS, I THINK THE MOST GET BLOWN AWAY!!! THEY STEAL THE FREEDOM AND CREATIVITY FROM THE HEART AND MIND OF CREATIVES!!! WELL AT LEAST IN MY COUNTRY, THAT’S WHY WILL STARTING BOMBING MY CITY WITH STENCILS MESSAGES LIKE:

AGENCIES SUCKS!!! INCLUDING THE NAMES OF THIS BIG NASTY AGENCIES WE HAVE HERE!!! AGENCIES KILL PEOPLE!!! AGENCIES KILL CREATIVITY!!!

IN ECUADOR THE AGENCIES ARE JUST FUCKING UP CREATIVES AND CULTURE THEY MADE SHIT AS COMMUNICATION WITHOUT STRATEGY, EDUCATION OR SENSE OF THE POWER OF CREATIVITY!!!

SORRY IF SOMEBODY LOVE AGENCIES BUT THEY HAVE TURN OUR WONDERFUL CREATIVE WORLD IN A DAILY HELL!!!

THAT WHY THE NOAGENCIA IS COMING TO BOMB!!!

WE MUST SAVE CREATIVITY!!!

IS THE ONLY WAY TO SURVIVE IN ALL FIELDS!!!

WE MUST SAVE OUR THE CREATIVE FUTURE!!!

Friday June 8th, 2012 06:35 PM

JOVOTO IS THE FUTURE, NOT THE AGENCIES!!!

Tuesday June 12th, 2012 06:15 PM

IT’S PRETTY HARD TO SHARE IDEAS FOR SOMETHING WE DON’T BELIEVE!!!

AGENCY MUST DISSAPEAR OR CHANGE THEIR “BUSSINESS WAY” TO SEE “CREATIVES/CREATIVITY”…

THEY THINK THEY OWN US!!! THEY MUST NO LONGER EXISTS!!!

A NEW STRUCTURE C2C (CREATIVE – CLIENTS / CLIENTS – CREATIVES) IN WHICH CLIENTS ARE AGENCIES OR COMPANIES/BRANDS, SO, AS THIS, THEY CAN CHOOSE WITH WHOM TO WORK AND PAY FOR EACH PROJECT, NOT HAVING CREATIVES IN PRISION!!!

WE MUST BE FREE TO MAKE OUR MIND, HEART AND SPIRIT FLY WITH NO BOUNDARIES IN A “DOWN TO EARTH” WAY!!!

THAT’S WHY I STAND BY JOVOTO AND HOPE SOMEDAY ALL BRANDS IN THE WORLD USE OUR COMMUNITY PLATFORM OR INDEPENDENT STUDIOS/LABS!!!

CREATIVES MUST BE CONSIDER AS THE SAME IMPORTANCE AS CLIENTS OR AGENCIES, THIS MEANS THAT THE STRUCTURE HAVE TO BE BUILT IN 3 INDEPENDENT PARTS:

  • CLIENTS (THE SHOW THEY NEEDS LOOKING FOR A SOLUTION).

  • CREATIVES (INVENTION, CREATIVITY, STRATEGIES, CONCEPTUALITY IN LESS WORDS: CREATE THE SOLUTION IN A SUITABLE AND FEASIBLE WAY RECEIVING A GOOD ENOUGH AND FAIR AMOUNT OF MONEY).

  • AGENCIES (PRODUCTION AND MEDIAS IMPLEMENTATION, WHERE THE BIG MONEY COMES FROM, THEIR COMMISION AND OVER COMMISIONS, ANYWAYS THEY ARE JUST LOOKING FOR MONEY)…

OR MAYBE (THIS IS AN UTOPIA) AGENCIES TURN AROUND THEIR VISION OF MONEY AND START WORKING FOR HUMANITY WELL-BEING AND THEIR OWN INVENTED PRODUCTS.

ALL THE BRANDS CAN WORK WITH THIS VISION AS WELL, NOT KILLING PEOPLE BUT GIVING THEM A BETTER AND HEALTHY LIFE!!!

BUT FOR ME THE FUTURE IS DEFINITELY THE CREATIVE COLLABORATION COMMUNITY 24/7, EVEN ON AN APP!!!

WOULD DO YOU THAT FOR ME JOVOTO, A MIX BETWEEN YOUR PLATFORM AND SKYPE IN A MOBILE DEVICE FOR NOT MISSING THE DAILY EVERYWHERE SPARKS?… WOULD WORK BRILLIANT FOR TEAM UP AND EXTRAORDINARY COLLABORATION CREATIVE PROJECTS!!!

COULD YOU?… HEHEHE…

ANYWAYS, HAVE ANY OF YOU SEEN “ART&COPY” MOVIE?…

Tuesday June 12th, 2012 06:28 PM

I WILL CALL IT AGENCY 3.0!!! WHERE BRANDS/CLIENTS, CREATIVES AND AGENCIES COLLABORATE WITH EACH OTHER FOR THE SAME TASK LOOKING FOR INNOVATION!!! INDEPENDENTLY BUT CONNECTED 24/7!!! OR THIS IS JOVOTO ALREADY?!!!

©noagencia, ideas con huevos! ©All copyrights reserved for this ideas! noagencia.com

;)

Yeah! That is what I wanted to say with my proposal "Crazy chicken"! :)

the middle man.. most often just interrupts the flow.

Something to Xaviers idea is different to mine: In my proposal agencies exists. Agencies "safe" our monthly money - if all creatives are independent and freelancer, this would be much more difficult for all of us. If you are working in an agency you get your money - if you work or not. But if you are independent or a freelancer you get only money if you have a job. I think it would be great if there will be a platform where many agencies come together and let their own creatives "free". The creatives can work with other creatives from other agencies together and they will payed 75% from the clients money. The agency will get 15% and the Traffic-platform 10% for example. Because the creatives are the ones who are working... :D

And if the work you did, wasn't successful in the market ... you would pay the money back?

@DENKdifferent I gather the 3 parts and mixed together in a independent and connected way... that's why agencies as we know this days... HAVE TO DISSAPEAR...

PEOPLE WHO ARE HIRED AND DON'T WORK THE MOST GET FIRED CAUSE THEIR ARE BEING PAID TO DO NOTHING... THAT'S NOT THE SPIRIT... THE SPIRIT IS TO WORK HARD DOING YOUR BEST IN EVERY SECOND OF YOUR LIFE!!!

THE NEW "AGENCY" MUST BECOME MORE FAIR AND FOCUS IN CREATIVITY LOOKING FOR THE BEST OF PEOPLE NOT BEING THE ONES THAT CREATES LIES TO PEOPLE JUST TO SELL!!!...

ALSO MY IDEA IS MORE FOR A REAL LIFE MOBILE APP FOR COLLABORATIVE CREATIVITY PLATFORM 24/7 WITH A NEW STRUCTURE WHERE EVERYONE EARNS MONEY IN A FAIR AND NEW WAY...

HOPE TO HAVE TIME DEVELOP IT TO SHOW YOU WHAT I REALLY MEAN AND HOW IT LOOKS LIKE!!!...

ANYWAYS MY EXPERIENCE IN THIS THEME IS JUST FROM A LATINAMERICAN "3RD WORLD" POINT OF VIEW... MAYBE WE HERE STILL ON DIAPERS... HEHEHE...

:)

you are all unemployed for a reason. you have nothing useful to offer anyone. so don't blame the working system that you can't be a part of.

I'M EMPLOYEE FROM 8am to 8pm AND OWNER OF MY OWN STUDIO AND WORK FROM 10pm to 3am IN MY HOME STUDIO AND ALSO HAVE DEVELOPED MY OWN BRANDS THAT WILL BE ON MARKET SOON!!!

SACRIFYING MY LIFE FOR MY FAMILY AND THE WELL-BEING OF MY COUNTRY!!! JUST WHEN YOU REALLY KNOW HOW REALLY IS TO SUPPORT AND MAINTAIN YOUR OWN PEOPLE YOU WILL ABLE TO AWAKE AND DO SOMETHING WORTHY FOR THE OTHER!!!

IT WOULD BE TO MEDIOCRE TO CONTINUE WITH THIS AGENCY SYSTEMS!!! THEY ARE REALLY EXPIRED; JUST GENIOUS MIND AND HUMBLE PEOPLE CAN REALLY CHANGE THE FUTURE OF HUMANITY!!!

NOT PEOPLE THAT JUST CRITIC AND DO NOTHING BEING DONKEYS AND BLIND SHEEPS SHEEPED BY THE SYSTEM!!!

IS REALLY IMPRESSIVE HOW NEGATIVE AND COMMON HUMAN YOU ARE!!! BUT I LOVE YOU STILL!!! YOU ARE LIKE THE MOTIVATION TO FIGHT AGAINST MEDIOCRITY OF PEOPLE!!!

YOU SHOULD HAVE A TRIP ALONE TO GALAPAGOS ISLAND TO RESTORE YOUR SPIRIT AND MIND TO SEE THAT THERE'S A LOOOOOOOOOT MORE WAYS TO BE POSITIVE TO SHARE GOOD IDEAS!!!

ANYWAYS, YOU ARE A GHOST USER FROM THE DARKSIDE OF THE FORCE!!!

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND TEIGAN!!!

:)

i think a peruvian ayahuasca trip would be more beneficial than galapagos.

TOTALLY RIGHT TOBIASVON BRO!!! OR A DELICIOUS SILOCYBE CUBENSIS COSMIC SHROOMS!!! THAT'S REALLY A LIGHT YEARS TRIP THAT ENLIGHTENED YOUR WHOLE SPIRIT CLARIFYING YOUR MIND, HEART AND SOUL!!! HEHEHE... AMAZONIC ECUADORIAN AYAHUASCA IS A WONDERFUL VISION TOO!!! :)

... or try to smoke cigarettes coated with toothpaste, dried in the sun. its an insider tip from the insane asylum. teigan, i love you're style: no respect, straight to the point, and true overall! For sure you could have an easy, but boring life. i appreciate people who have a clear opinion! Truth hurts! 10*

@teigan. I have some problem with: you are all ......... I know for sure it´s not "all"

anyone who is employable is also perceptive enough to know i wasn't including them in the statement. so where's the problem? those three people have already found my comment useful.

You are abusive - that is never acceptable. Why not leave? It doesn't seem as if yu would be missed.

i will miss him. he makes me laugh anytime i read his comments.

I know ( I think it comes out of the heart) what Xavier is saying here. But Xavier I think this is a beginning of something new. Jovoto is getting stronger. Agencies are now willing to collaborate with jovoto. Think .......... Agencies (the industry) see that jovoto does a great job. Yes there are beginners and there are more experienced designers and thinkers. It´s the mix and the outcome that makes jovoto different. The agencies are interrested. I think Bastian has done a huge job by making this a success story. In the future I think agencies will ask creatives from jovoto to work on their projects. Jovoto is still under construction. But mark my words. Jovoto, has put the trend for the future.

No doubt about it, Jovoto is addicting. The vast amount of projects, the amazing spectrum of talent and individual approaches make this a very interesting place to spend free time. I also enjoy how I get to play the roles of Art Director, Designer and 'account manager' all in ONE :D I think the freedom that we are allowed is what makes it appealing. At work, I'll submit a design but then it goes through multiple hands and comes back to me completely changed. So here, the beauty is deciding which direction you'd like to take with peer advice. It's a beautiful thing really.

YES!!! TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU HOLLY AND WITH YOU @BERT, OF COURSE TOTALLY FROM THE HEART AND MIND!!!

THAT'S WHY I WILL MAKE MY SUBMITION VERY SOON!!! I TRUST JOVOTO WITH "EYES CLOSED"!!! :)

IT'S FOCUS JUST LIKE YOU SAID THAT'S WHY I SEPARATE IT IN 3 PARTS THAT WORKS INDEPENDENTLY BUT CONNECTED AT THE SAME TIME MAKING EVERYONE AN IMPORTANT AND CRUCIAL PART OF THE PROCESS!!!

THAT'S WHY I CALL IT AGENCY 3.0, NOGENCIA OR CLOUDSTORM APP INSPIRED FROM JOVOTO'S MAIN HEADLINE AT THE HOMEPAGE!!!

ALL THAT I HAVE WRITTEN IS JUST A POINT OF VIEW OF THE NASTY ADVERTISING WORLD HERE IN ECUADOR THAT HAVE KIDNAP CREATIVITY!!!

AND MOST OF CREATIVES ARE BURNING IN ADVERTISING CREATIVE NONSENSE "HELL"!!!

YEARS AGO "BIG AGENCIES" STARTED TO ASK FOR MONTHLY FEES TO CLIENTS IN EXCHANGE OF THEIR CREATIVE SOULS, THIS MEANS THAT THERE'S NO LIMIT OF WORKING TIME, TOO LESS MONEY PAID FOR CREATIVE DEPARTMENTS AND CLIENTS DON'T CARE ABOUT CONCEPTS OR GUIDELINES, THEY JUST ASK TO AGENCIES WHATEVER THEY WANT DEPENDING IN THEIR MOOD OF THAT DAY!!! THAT'S ALSO FAULT OF THE SEUDOMARKETING STRATEGIST!!! THAT DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE THIER COMMON SENSE TO REACH THEIR TASK!!! THEY EVEN DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WANT OR NEED FOR THEIR BRANDS!!! STINKY SHIT!!! HEHEHE...

AGENCIES HAD TURN INTO "LIMITLESS LABOR", SO IDEAS AND INNOVATION HAVE PASSED AWAY!!!

AND I MEAN "THOMPSON", "OGILVY", "YOUNG&RUBRICAM", "BBDO", "TBWA" AND LOT MORE...

AND THERE ARE JUST A FEW GREAT ONES, AND GUESS WHAT?... THEY AREALL THE INDEPENDENT AGENCIES MADE UP FROM CREATIVE THAT DROP OUT "OLDSCHOOL" AGENCIES!!!

AND NOT A WORD ABOUT ECUADORIAN ADVERTISING AWARDS FESTIVALS, THEY REALLY REALLY SUCK!!!...

ANYWAYS, AT LEAST WE HAVE ARGENTINA AND BRAZIL TO LEARN AND TO REPRESENT SOUTH AMERICA!!!...

:)

maybe also helpful - I gathered up some other pieces from the #adfuture debate on my http://adfuture.posterous.com/

hello everyone, if we keep up the constructive and controverse discussion here we are in the middle of a culture-changing project: AGENCY WORLD MEETS CROWD CREATION WORLD. And this is, what we at jovoto intend by taking part in this adventure. Together with you guys and girls we have proved in 200 projects that there are new ways of creative work already. But as we all know 99.9% of the creative tasks are still handled by the traditional agencies. So it’s clear what this is all about: Agencies and Agency Networks can profit from all of us by learning from creative people that already live up to new ways of creative collaboration - and we all can profit from the agencies opening up, discussing with us and - hopefully - share great projects with us in the future. So this project is really not just about the AGENCIES OF THE FUTURE but also about COLLABORATION PLATFORMS OF THE FUTURE. Therefore Bastian (who is currently on baby-leave), me and the whole jovoto-team appreciate every constructive input from your side no matter if it is a creative submission, a posted thesis or a critical comment.

But the actual question has been ignored again.

What in the WORLD made you (jovoto) think that this would be an accetable Open Zone project, according to the specifics you yourself defined?

It ain't social, it ain't artistic, it is related to a company, it isn't not-for-profit, and it sure as hell ain't for the greater good.

Maybe it will be for your profit in the future. So, think before you shout.

Do you earn money by thinking about yourself and your industry? i think, if we all make one step back and then thinking again, then we'll see we're all in the same boat, don't you think? And it was mentioned that you (yes YOU) can take the results of this openzone-work to promote or even sell it (if you'll find somebody pay for it). and i'm not working for agencies. i run my own studio. so if you think, it's bad as hell, why do you collaborate? if you don't have one dime left for your own brothers & sisters, who will thinking about the future of our work? would you like it, if some politicians or mediamoguls or philosophs would solve our coming problems? for me, i think its better WE DO IT, than anybody else.

Hi CrossTheLime, I rather think the actual answer has been ignored. If we do a good job here it is for the good of the future of creatives no matter if they work in the agency or on a platform of the future. And of course we consider creative work as well culturaly as well as socially a greater good. If not so, we would not even have started a future project as jovoto.

I think most of us still disagree, and feel cheated that this project, profiting agencies, was chosen over other projects that actually do something good in this world.

And I am still not understanding how your self-proclaimed characteristics of an Open Zone project are satisfied.

"Initiated by an individual or group and not associated with any company or formalized organization"

  • It is initiated by agencies. Each jury member is doing this on company time, for company glory, and paid from company funds.

"Non-profit all the way, the projects must be of artistic or social nature"

  • I still don't see this. There are numerous non-tangible profits in this for the agencies. Brand recognition and image building being the main ones.

For me, this smells of a trial project offered to agencies, to prove that we are "worthy" of future paid projects.

Looking at the discussion, most of the creatives agrees with me. Yet no serious attempt has been made by Jovoto to address this. Guys, we are already pumping days or weeks for free into the projects on here. Don't we deserve to be treated with enough respect to not be offered up for free?

Again, I would like to see a monthly vote for Open Zone projects. We are the ones expected to work for free. Let us decide which causes we deem worthy.

This ain't it.

hey cross, i like ur idea of members voting on which open projects to work on. I think this project should just be reclassified as an open forum for discussing the current state of an industry in serious flux. i think our personal rewards for participating will be a much better understanding of how agencies are scrambling to adapt to the digital age and what our roles as crowdsourced creatives might be in the near future. If u read that article above you'll see that the industry is in total chaos how traditional agencies are under serious threat from all sides. The line that struck me was 'Victors & Spoils has virtually no staff and "operates on the principles of crowdsourcing" -- currently the most vilified term in the agency world.' , so i think with this project the agencies want to, or are forced to, reexamine their relationship with the crowd.

You ARE free to decide which causes you personally deem worthy. If this one isn't. Don't waste your time with it.

But I don't have the chance to work on a worthy Open Zone, because no-one ever asked us - and this project is taking up the space of a truly worthy cause. :(

A visionary ! Nina Rieke (Executive Strategy Director, DDB Tribal Group GmbH) jury member made a statement: "The future is already here, it is just not evenly distributed."

jovoto community is not likely to see the future unless it is found in the ass they are kissing.

There HAS been others (e.g. http://www.dothiv.org/) and there WILL be others. Promise :-)

Oh, I know, and I hope to have time once something useful comes around again. :) I am on vacation right now, and don't mind that no active contests tickle my fancy... booked to the hilt the way it is.

But I still believe that accepting this as Open Zone was a mistake, and contrary to your high standards of what OZ were meant to be. And I think it is a mistake to not address that specific concern that many of us have expressed, over and over again.

It's picked up already !!!!!!!!!

Agenturen der Zukunft: Ideenwettbewerb gestartet

Hamburg, 12. Juni 2012 – Der Ideenwettbewerb „Agenturen der Zukunft“ startet heute um 12 Uhr auf der Creative-Crowdsourcing-Plattform Jovoto.com. Kreative, Unternehmer und Agenturen sind aufgefordert, ihre Visionen der „Agenturen der Zukunft“ in Form von Comics, Illustrationen, Filmen, Kurzgeschichten oder Liedern einzureichen und gemeinsam zu diskutieren. Dabei geht es explizit um künftige Organisations- und Geschäftsmodelle von Kommunikationsagenturen, nicht um die Zukunft der Werbung oder der Kommunikation. Der Wettbewerb läuft vom 12.6. bis 17.7.2012 und ist Teil eines kollaborativen Think-Tanks zu „Agenturen der Zukunft“, den der unabhängige Trend- und Transformationsberater Jörg Jelden leitet. Der Think-Tank wurde von JeldenTTC und der Wiener Strategieberatung frührot konzipiert.

Fork Unstable Media, DDB Tribal, Red Rabbit, TLGG, CE+Co, Philipp & Keuntje, häberlein & mauerer, kleiner & bold, TBWA sowie die interne Agentur von Entega sind Agentur-Partner dieses Think-Tanks. Außerdem engagieren sich Jovoto, CrowdWorx und die Good School als Partner. Gemeinsam wird untersucht, wie sich Agenturen in einer von extremen Veränderungen geprägten Zukunft neu aufstellen müssen. Neben dem Ideenwettbewerb werden weitere Antworten und Handlungsempfehlungen über Experteninterviews und gemeinsame Workshops erhoben. Flankiert wird das Projekt von quantitativen Untersuchungen sowie dem Ideenwettbewerb auf jovoto.com. Die Ergebnisse werden im Herbst 2012 veröffentlicht.

Der Ideenwettbewerb wird ein sogenannter „Open Call“ sein. Dadurch kann jeder die Diskussion verfolgen, kommentieren und eigene Ideen einreichen. Die Community wählt schließlich selbst die Gewinner-Konzepte. Zudem werden die Agenturpartner des Forschungsprojektes fünf Jury-Gewinner identifizieren.

jovoto ist Partner des Projekts „Agenturen der Zukunft“. Die Community von jovoto umfasst weltweit mehr als 40.000 Kreative der unterschiedlichsten Disziplinen. Die Jovoto-Community konzentriert sich auf kreative Fragestellungen und wurde unter anderem von der Deutschen Bahn, Greenpeace, Coca-Cola, s.Oliver und easyJet damit beauftragt, kreative Konzepte zu entwickeln.

Link zum Ideenwettbewerb

Pressekontakt Resonanz PR Andreas Gutjahr Tel.: 0170 968 32 02 E-Mail: jeldenttc@resonanz-pr.com

Über JeldenTTC Jörg Jelden ist unabhängiger Trend- und Transformationsberater (JeldenTTC). Er hilft Auftraggebern und Partnern, Trends zu verstehen, in konkrete Chancen zu übersetzen und neue Wege zu gehen. Gemeinsam mit ihnen initiiert und führt er strategische Zukunftsdiskurse, um geteilte Visionen zu entwickeln, lebendige Strategien zu konzipieren und erfolgreich Märkte zu erschließen. Er ist Kurator der NEXT Berlin Konferenz und Autor verschiedenster Trendstudien. www.jeldenttc.com

what does this mean in english?! :P

It's an press anouncement about the project by Jörg Jelden (jury member)

Thank you so much dear Bert! :)

From all agencies and jurymembers there is one facebook announcement: https://www.facebook.com/kleinerundbold

They are running into the future :-) or does this say something about facebook?

Point proven - not-for-profit is hogwash. :)

One remark. I don´t think it´s company time at the moment for: JJelden jury (project)

What makes you think that? He runs his own company - so while he may decide to work weird hours, the way all of us do, it is still company time. The way me posting at this hour is my company time. But I am not publishing PR pieces to make that public. :)

Jovoto quote: "Or the task is one that you just want to keep free of any kind of corporate involvement". Just the PR piece proves that corporate involvement is in there, and it's the only thing in there.

But I feel as if I am fighting windmills.

It is apparent that my concerns are either ignored by the platform and jury, or not shared by them. It is also clear that this will most likely shape up to be one embarrassing experiment, since most creatives share my views, and don't see the motivation to work on this for free.

We might vent and bitch in the comments, still investing time, but most of us won't hand the agencies more fodder or actual input for free.

And they won't care. Somehow, they will sell this as a success, and promote the hell out of it. Again case in point - this sure won't be the last PR piece promoting their companies.

Not-for-profit my ass.

En groetjes naar Nederland! Jammer van de laatste wedstrijd, maar 2 tegen Portugaal zijn toch te halen? Ik mis Den Haag... maar Hamburg is ook leuk, hoor. :)

Gila

Ha ha. Ik denk dat je toch langzamerhand bezig bent om een bepaalde richting te geven aan hoe het zou moeten gaan in de toekomst. En laat dat nou net het project zijn. Mijn idee ? Doe er gewoon aan mee en laat horen wat je niet en wel goed vind en hoe jij het zou willen zien in de toekomst. Ik denk dat je te achterdochtig bent. (mail mij je mailadres en ik leg je uit waarom ik dat denk) En eh ..... Gila zondag komt het alsnog goed! Winnen we niet, dan ben ik even off-line voor een weekje ofzo. Groet, Bert.

Gelukkig ben ik nu op vakantie, anders had ik de collega's afgelopen week moeten zien... Nu pas dinsdag weer op kantoor, dus hopelijk zijn ze dan al de oranje grapjes weer vergeten. Of het elftal is gewoon door, dan ga ik met mijn oranje shirt naar werk!

Achterdochtig? Moi? :) Ik ben in eerste instantie marketing manager. En ik weet ik doe niks zonder reden. Elke actie is en deel van de marketing en promotie plan, en als ik geld of tijd besteed moet het de moeite waard zijn.

In mijn eigen bedrijf (ik werk maar 3 dagen per week voor iemand anders) heb ik de luxe om meer dingen gewoon voor de lol te doen.

Omdat ik veel op crowdsourcing sites werk, doe ik voor hun ook blog artikelen, feedback, beta testing etc. - alles dingen om hun verder te helpen, en volledig zonder betaling. Natuurlijk is het geen nadeel dat ik direct contact met de medewerkers heb... een stukje fame, een stukje gemak, en het gevoel dat de site het waardeerd en er iets mee doet.

Maar voor mij is er geen motivatie om agenturen verder te helpen. Ik wil never nooit voor een agentuur werken. Ik had een burnout in 2007, moet ik echt niet herhalen. :) Ik ben ook niet geinteresseerd in opdrachten van hun. Heb nu al te weinig tijd en accepteer al een tijdje geen nieuwe klanten... behalve als iets echt leuks binnenkomt, zoals de optie om de illustraties van een kinderboek te doen. Ook weer zo'n project waar het geld waarschijnlijk plus/ min nul is, tenminste totdat het boek is verkocht... maar ja, het lijkt mij een leuke uitdaging.

Dus nee, meer input dan mijn "protest-entry" en lullige commentaren is niet te verwachten vanuit mijn kant. :)

Alles komt goed....

Hallo mede-Nederlanders :-) wist niet dat Nederlands ook mocht :-)

Leuk kennis met jullie te maken.

Interessante site dit wel! Ideeen genereren werkt verslavend.

Ik heb nooit bij een agency gewerkt maar het is wel interessant dat er een aantal negatieve gevoelens boven komen drijven bij deze en gene als het gaat over agencies. Dat zou wel eens een belangrijk puntje voor ze kunnen worden straks met de vergrijzing als de baby boomers met pensioen gaan en het moeilijker wordt om jong talent aan te trekken... dan wil je toch gezien worden als fijn bedrijf om voor te werken...

Extreem in de watten leggen wordt het waarschijnlijk :-)

Respect Gila. En ten eerste: geniet van je vakantie. Verder: het gaat mij niet om agenturen verder te helpen maar om te zorgen dat ze oog hebben/krijgen voor zoiets als jovoto. Een ieder (jovotans) kan dan zelf beslissen of ze wel of niet willen deelnemen aan de aangeboden projecten. Hoe het er in de toekomst moet gaan uitzien daar denk ik over na. Dat deed ik ook al voor dit project.

@AyalPinkus. Sorry maar het is niet de bedoeling om in het Nederlands commentaar te geven. Sorry dat ik het deed. Het kwam als reactie op CrossTheLime. Maar welkom op jovoto. Hoop dat je hier kunt vinden wat je zoekt. Trouwens je hebt wel een goed punt wat betreft de baby-boomers.

@Prodeoweb, okay got it, back to English :-) Thanks :-)

One of my first ideas was actually to involve retiring baby boomers. They could mentor a younger generation, marry youthful energy with a life time of experience :-) Additional benefit to working for an agency; get training from a very experienced pro.

Somehow it didn't feel like a good idea any way, otherwise people would have been doing that already.

It could be a part of an idea. I would integrate it into one of your ideas.

It's all my fault! I just love a chance om af en toe Nederlands te babbelen... doesn't happen all that often. :) And just to be clear, I'm a fraud - I am German, not Dutch... just happen to speak Dutch.

CrossTheLime, haha, no worries :-)

I visited your web site, love love love your illustrative work!

Hope you're having a nice restful holiday.

Ich wusste das schon :-) But what the ..... Dutch, German or .............. we are all jovotans.

Thanks guys - and thanks for still talking to me. Sorry about soccer. I am mourning, too...

Haha !!! Well. I didn't see the second half at all. Pfft.. soccer. My son just told me you won with 2-1. Congrats.

Oh man it's getting more exciting every minute :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuaNUqswpI0

@Prodeoweb. Creatives working on platforms like Jovoto and not being part of agencies any more is surely one model of future agencies. The question remains in this setting: how does the agency look like then? Or put otherwise: how would you like them to be in order to be good partners in delivering work for clients.

be careful not to confuse a fad for a trend. platforms like jovoto get buzz because they tell people what they want to hear. it's like the parade of miracle diets that come and go. in the end they don't work because the key premise is fundamentally flawed.

actually as agency i would use crowdsourcing platforms just for ¨brainstorming¨. not more, not less.

and as we know, brilliant thinkers are rare. if you meet one treat him/her with respect and listen carefully what he/she say. try to understand the motivation behind his thoughts. and then help wherever you can, to reach the target.

unfortunately there are more decision-makers than brilliant heads ...

@JJelden. My first thought on your question. (first part of your comment) You're looking at it, and you are part of it at the moment. But that's not what you want to know. How will it look like in 2022? Or do you mean: how do we go towards 2022. I think nobody can tell how an agencie will look like in 2022. So I try to figure out: how do we reach 2022 together.

Well, it is not about being right or wron, but to envision. the idea is to create a vision, discuss it and then think about how we get there. It is a methode called science fiction prototyping. Telling stories about how we envision a topic in order to explore and better remember it. if you do it the other way round it is much more difficult to envision.

@JJelden. Sorry? Who is talking about "right" or "wrong" I can´t remember I did! And to reassure you. I work with a vision. I also think you´re pointing the right direction for all of us by using the "science fiction prototyping" method. But I wanted to skip that because the briefing said: We are looking for positive, visionary and pragmatic approaches, not science-fiction ideas that are out of touch with reality. Maybe I did not really understood the last 3 words :-)

my entry is the only one firmly rooted in relaity, and it will be deleted.

Relaity, thy color is brown. (sorry, couldn't help myself).

Brown is the new Black.

@Prodeoweb. Sorry for being not precise in my expression. What I wanted to say is that I am sure the future has many more agency models than today and we are not looking for the one and only. But I know that you didn´t say that either. *G

You got it! :-)More tomorrow.!

Was having fun with the briefing hope that was okay. Wasn't allowed to enter a sixth idea...

You could also combine more aspects into one entry. :)

I don't get it.

The question asked is "what company would you like to work for?" to which some are saying "I'll tell you -- if you pay me."

I mean, if you as a creative ask that question to a customer, "What can I do for you?" do you expect that customer to turn around and say "I'll tell you -- if you pay me?"

Because that is what this is I believe. You are the CUSTOMER. And a creative one to boot.

Yes, agencies and consultants make money but come on... there is nothing wrong with that.

You've submitted ideas. So, you do not have to feel guilty :) Maybe one of your ideas even in the top 5 and will be discussed at the workshop and your name even be mentioned! This would be great, right? :-)

@DENKdifferent, haha, I agree that is not much of a reward :-)

But do people need to be rewarded for joining a discussion?

I guess people are giving feedback... the better agency is the one where they get better pay...

Sehr sehr schön!!!!

Only this time you are not The Artist, you are The Client. Agencies are simply asking you how they can help you by providing a more pleasurable work environment for you.

If you don't tell them, you can't blame them for not improving.

Why in the world would I be the client? Most of us don't work for agencies for a reason. :)

And again, you are missing the point of who is gaining from this project. This is initiated by a company making money in trend forecasting and consultancy. It is advised by agencies, loads of them. So somewhere, money will be made. And it won't be the creatives making it. Neither today nor down the road.

This is not a client-creative relationship at all.

"Most of us don't work for agencies for a reason. :) "

That is precisely my point. One of the things they are asking you is; what do you think agencies should be like in the future, what would make you want to work at an agency again.

I would imagine you yourself would have a vested interest in seeing places in the future where you would love to work, either for the cool projects or for the money or preferably both :-)

Having said that, DENKdifferent DID put in her dime, child care...

Note The Consultants will get something from this whether you want to or not. The'll now be able to turn around and tell the agencies, "hey guys, lookit here, you have a problem; no one wants to work for you. Let us help you change that." ;-)

Oh, but what if I never wanted to work in and for an agency? I gave my reason under DENKdifferent´s working-mothers-idea. And I still believe, that the main goal of this contest is not a sudden compassion from agencies towards creatives but a mere survival strategy to sound out, how they can keep on making money in the future. And this is, what I am not willing to support. Let them struggle for themselves - I need my energies for my own survival. ;o)

@AyalPinkus: I have the strange feeling that you get money for motivating all of us ... ;)

@DENKdifferent haha no. I'm just a happy industry outsider looking in. I try to make a living creating graphic novels (comics) actually and I have nothing to do with agencies and such. Trying to understand what is happening in these threads is all... I sense a lot of negative emotions about what should be a fun industry.

Reason I participated in is contest was the briefing called for telling stories, comics. So I thought itcould be interesting practice for me. Need to make these still though... Perhaps I'd have the time if I stayed off these forums ;-) ;-)

@DENKdifferent, I did appreciate your comment on people asking you to do work for free, I get that a lot too.

He/she is not. It's only good to see that everybody drops their different point of views here! Thank you all for that.

The answer to the briefing is: in the future the agencies have to "DENK different" :-)

and some more inspiration:

"Joseph Jaffe says the future will be made up of two kinds of agencies: the idea generators and the executors of those ideas.

Bob Greenberg, who has a considerable interest in his own agency, R/GA, looking like the agency of the future, thinks that the agency of the future will hold court over digital technologies and interactions for the brand.

Ben Malbon, the nice chap who heads up BBH Labs, a sweet future-y morsel nestled inside BBH, believes that crowdsourcing, or some kind of permeable relationship with creative talent outside the agency, is a necessity for the agency of the future.

Tim Malbon at Made By Many, who shares some DNA with Ben from BBH Labs, thinks we should be asking what an agile advertising agency looks like.

Putting some of these ideas to the test – new agency models are already being implemented by IDEO, Agency Nil, and Victor & Spoils just to name a few…

What about an advertising agency that launches its own brands? Both Coudal Partners in Chicago and Anomaly out of NY and London tinker and toil with this model to varying degrees of success.

And all of this discussion and activity even has Forrester primed to release a report on the topic soon. It’s sure to be short, expensive, and oft-quoted."

Read more and get the links for the quotes here: http://whatconsumesme.com/2010/posts-ive-written/who-says-the-future-needs-an-advertising-agency/

AND some pretty interesting forecasts from another angle here: http://www.futurefoundation.net/page/view/the_future_of_advertising_and_agencies_-_a_10_year_perspective

AND (my pint of view):

ASK YOUR PARTNERS IF THEY WOULD INVEST SOME PRICEMONEY OR OTHER HONESTLY HONORABLE VALUE FOR THE COMMUNITY.

Kreative brauchen Dünger, Futter, Schotter und Wertschätzung. Auch bei einem professionellem think tank. = ) Und gerade eben auch wenn es um unsere Zukunft geht.

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!! HOPE THIS PORJECT TURNS INTO A NEW PATH! THIRLLED TO SEE HOW IT GROWS.

THIS RESEARCH IS JUST PERFECT TO EXPLAIN CLOUDSTORM AGENCY 3.0 VALUES AND STATEMENTS!!! THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!! THANKS JESKO AND JEROEN FOR YOUR RESEARCH HINTS!!! THIS MOTIVATES ME EVEN MORE TO CONTINUE BUILDING THE TEASER OF THE PLATFORM IDEA, CONCEPTS, WORKFLOW CREATIVES/CLIENTS/AGENCIES AND ALL WITHIN THE PROCESS!!! I BELIEVE IN ALL THE WORDS WRITTEN ABOVE!!! THEY ARE THE FUTURE PRINCIPLES AND MOST IMPORTANT VALUES THE AGENCY 3.0!!! :)

I'm thinking of the agency of the future as an agency without an agency! :) So happy to be part of the open call!

I saw from your web site that you are actually making your idea, the fluid network, happen. Very cool!

Absolutely! THX! Happy to share my experiences of one year in depth work in a fluidnetwork!

...can it be that the jury has lost the fancy of this project? Or they may be thinking about Jeskos proposal? (Kreative brauchen Dünger, Futter, Schotter und Wertschätzung. Auch bei einem professionellem think tank. = )

Jury - if you have no money (...) would be my suggestion: iPads for all :D

I think they have to work on a pitch during the weekend! :)

Bull´s eye! At least if you´re talking about pitching the best arguments for a seven-year-old to (not) go to bed. Depends on how you define "work" ;-)

A good trick is always "forbidding television" ;-)

After a time of thinking I´m still confused. My mind is spinning and what´s on my mind at the moment is as difficult as the project: find a new word for "new"

Haha, there are many synonyms of course :-)

New = advanced, modern, future, improved, enhanced, fresh, novel, original, unprecedented, other, newfangled, young, contemporary, up-to-date, latest, happening, different, current, state-of-the-art, ground-breaking, changed, rejuvenated, restored, altered, revitalized, ... :-)

Isn't "3.0" the word of the day? :)

Ha ha. Synonyms are not a new word for new. But 3.0 could be one Gila. e.g. give me my 3.0 doll. Wow this does really works.

Shit! O sorry. But it is not a word at all !

three-point-zero - it is a word now :-)

no no no :-) the words are written with dash - ONE WORD :-)

I have a three-point-zero suit. Mmmmmm ..........

I don't know, a revitalized suit, a different, current or state-of-the-art suit, an altered suit, would work fine for me ;-)

(I guess you were right, those don't sound good at all!)

"Beyond" is always appropriate. :)

I love it when clients say "but the logo shouldn't be web 2.0 - more like what logos are like in 5 years". Huh. Most times we end up with a retro/ vintage touch.

Yeah, beyond, next-gen...

I suspect Prodeoweb is looking for a new new word (?)

Vintage/retro is indeed popular, it is the "new now", an "Eclectic Renaissance" , physical-world mash-ups of as all possible styles of the past :-)

I'm trying :-)

I think you´re on the right track. Think about in relation with the agencies in, let´s say 2020. My brains are still spinning. (Mashup?)

Mashups are when you use a combination of various internet platform APIs to create something new. Think using the Google Maps API in combination with the Facebook API to make a little thingy where you can can see on a map where all your friends live :-)

Or so...

Agency mashups :-)

(I'm sure the agencies will love that suggestion, being mashed up ;-) ).

I see retail brand mash-ups are already being done. Brands with APIs (so you can mash them with other services) are also already being done... I guess it isn't quite "new" :-) Cool for a campaign or two maybe but not quite the new new.

HOT !!!!!!!

They already started.

TBWA\ Berlin Really cosy. Our conference room for this week. In only 3 days our 3rd floor metharmorphosized into a customer's home for a SWAT. SWAT? What? That's how we call our special creative task forces. Creatives from all over the world come together to work in an authentic atmosphere and develop ideas on a special client's briefing. Want to join us in the future? Contact our Human Resources Manager Annett: annett.hausmann@tbwa.de — SWAT @ TBWA

Sound great, bert!! Is there a connection to this project or did you post it just as a great example or inspiration? Best from Berlin!

I suspect Prodeoweb posted it as an example of what agencies are already doing in order to be the agencies of the future.

Googled it; the TBWA SWAT teams are about putting a multi-cultural creative team together to find a global solution to a problem a global customer is facing, by flying in creative talent from all over the world.

Apparently some of these SWAT sessions already lead in prize-winning results.

Sounds like a cool idea to me! I can imagine it being fun to participate in these SWAT brainstorm sessions.

After reading all the comments and saw the entries. One thing is clear. Most of the commenters would like something as SWAT. That´s why I did place the tweet here. But I am still a bit confused about all the fuzziness. People come with ideas about how they would like it to be in the future. But the question is: how will the agencies look like in ..................

BTW I don't see any team-ideas yet. Co-creation is what almost all ideas have in common. But ...........

Well actually I feel like some people like @AyalPinkus for example really helped shape my idea! And everyone's feedback contributes to a certain point :)

Team ideas, yeah....

Online brainstorming, creatives building on top of each others ideas in a positive way...

Jovoto could have a chat box feature with virtual chalkboard next to it. Most Jovoto members will have a Wacom next to their keyboards any way, this way they can chat online, directly bouncing ideas off each other, making drawings...

The feed from the chat box could be logged so it could be checked afterward if some one didn't contribute anything at all.

People could form a group and decide to brainstorm ideas together and share the spoils.

There could be contests you were only allowed to enter as a group of at least N members, so people don't try to go it alone by keeping their best ideas to themselves.

Before you know it you'd have alliances, people who like to brainstorm and work together participate in every contest together, and before you know it --

-- you have multiple online virtual agencies inside Jovoto! Competing for prizes, generating their best ideas.

Why would these online virtual agencies not leave Jovoto? Well, where else would you find such a great tool for collaboration? :-)

Online brainstorming sessions, and tools specifically made for that so that it almost becomes like sitting in the same room (think of the user experience of such a tool, such a thing has yet to be made), would love to see how that panned out! :-)

A collaborative drawing tool... what would that look like.... Hmmm... Oh, sorry, did I say that out loud? ;-)

Multi-user Photoshop haha! Work on the same file together. That would be magic. You're fretting on some detail and then later you zoom out and you discover your collaborator made something really cool on some other layer.

Any way, better get back to work...

Hey Ayal Pinkus . I think Xavier already did a proposal that way with his Cloudstorm. Or am I wrong here.

Not talking about the Multi-user Photoshop issue. Would be funny.

Didn't mean Xavier's Cloudstorm I think as he seems to propose every one has value and can join in any way they want.

I would prefer to choose who I collaborate with, some people are better than others I believe. Xavier seems to be saying every one is equally valuable... I kind of disagree with that... Some one with experience would bring more to the table than a junior, IMHO. And a group needs a strong visionary leader.

And I meant a tool carefully designed for collaboration.

Maybe I misread his idea though, maybe that was what he meant too...

Well, I read it again and I don't.

I'm new to this creative industry thing and looking around I found the many sites that explain why you shouldn't do spec creative. It appears to me that many of the reasons mentioned in all these essays also apply to creative crowd-sourcing efforts like this one here on Jovoto, even if there is money involved.

The first main problem I see is you can't talk with the customer directly and find out what his dreams are. How can you then turn around and design a solution for him? I find I am running into that problem with the Apetito contest; I have no idea what they are really looking for and so I feel I am shooting in the dark. I never do projects like that!

Related to that, there aren't much upfront resources available to do research. For example, I noticed that many ideas proposed in the Tablet hotels contest were sometimes perhaps a little bit naive. I suspect you get better ideas if you let creatives stay in luxury hotels for a while or interview people who do or who own luxury hotels. Money to buy market reports might help too. Spending time with hotel personnel, spending time in New York, see what the other hotels are like, what the scene is like. You know, research.

The site is not (yet) designed with collaboration between creatives or creatives and clients in mind. I strongly believe you get better ideas through collaboration.

I'm not trying to attack anything, just trying to understand. Any one have thoughts on this?

You have a very valid point Ayal pinkus... may be the solution at least in jovoto... is the opportunity to ask the clients some relevant questions or for more data/ one on one idea feedback even as the contest is on. This may be complied by the contest guide and can be posted as feedback on the briefing or under the idea..Investing time in going through the ideas and commenting for improvement is I think of benefit to the client. They get a selection of more finetuned ideas which they can actually use. If some ideas are not what they are looking for ,those ideas can be then be left alone and the creatives can work on a more usable idea while there is time. I found some of the ideas in Parador contest were already in existence in Parador product portfolio in the past few years(After the contest). There was no feedback during the contest saying this is an idea we already have from them.. I am not dissing the company or jovoto. Just mentioning it ,because we end up voting for ideas which are already in existence within the company. It ends up a waste of time for the creatives involved because the company won't use or buy those ideas. This could have been avoided by a dialogue between the creatives and the company or if more information( previous brochures etc) and data was provided. I am in full agreement with the need for more access to the client for a better way to design.

You. Just. Nailed it.

WIthout client feedback, is shooting in the dark. with the eyes closed. aiming to my stomach.

it should be mandatory a weekly feedback (at least) otherwise, we're not designing for the client. just for us.

that eliminatory round is a dream. I really doubt that jovoto's gonna do it. that will be awesome. maybe I'm spending too much time into an idea the client will never use. so, don't wait a month to tell me so.

The thing is, if the client gives feedback, that means he's involved. And he's really gonna buy it. And that, my fellow jovotians, is really uncommon nowadays. 10000 cash in prizes, thousands of hours-men invested. and NOT A SINGLE FUCKING WORD FROM THE GUY WHO EMPTIED HIS POCKETS!!!!

This, I know, it's a message in a bottle, and most likely will NEVER get ashore.

@AyalPinkus The site is not (yet) designed with collaboration.

We have the collaboration tool. (see below: Edit your idea)

A lot of valid points in this discussion.

Regarding the feedback from the client. As always not all clients are equally involved in their projects. Since some months we have a structure in place where we always have at least 1 feedback talk during the project. Afterwards the feedback is of course communicated to the community. E.g. in parador and apetito there's some very valuable feedback under the briefing.

In case one of you guys have very specific questions, always feel free to ask the contest guide so they can communicate them to the client.

Thanks for the feedback Jeroen.. Glad to know we can ask questions even as the contest is on ... It would be really helpful even with a halftime feedback to have a simple relevant/ not relevant or usable /not usable note for ideas which they feel are apt and those that are not. Like I mentioned earlier in my comment. This will help both the client and the creatives from wasting time. If the clients know the advantages of being more proactive I am sure they will want to be more proactive. They will only need to let one of their employees compile a document with a simple - usable / not usable list. Most of us do update details only later, but will have a description. One solution could be what I call a design pitch before loading into main contest. Creatives could initially put up a brief write up plus picture for what they intent, open until three days before contest end. (Most creatives would work on the idea by then) Client gets back within 24/36 hours of putting up the pitch with a yes or no . The designated employee can follow the contest throughout.. Once this basic idea had been approved by the client, the idea can be put up for rating and commenting. This would ensure more accurate ideas are going to be put up and it is helpful for the creatives because they won't waste time. Would like to hear from other creatives about what they think and from Jovoto if this would work within their framework. I am appreciative of both Apetito and Parador feedback that we got. Like you said very valuable. I mentioned what I came across in a hope that it would help in avoiding a recurrence. I must mention that I wasn't talking about my ideas but some other's ideas and I wished that they had known earlier. After all time is valuable for everyone..

Did I miss the Tablet feedback then? Because there was no halftime feedback, no end feedback....

Most spec work sites actually have a more or less working feedback process in place. But those projects usually do best feedback-wise when they are short... 99D is 4 days for the first round, for example. And obviously, it is easier to provide some sort of feedback on a logo than on an intricate, 12-page concept.

But I agree, Jovoto feels like we are playing at being creative... like a sandbox. Without involvement from the client throughout the project, the chances of actually producing workable entries is slim.

Clearly you did not check out any other projects then Tablet. Yes, the feedback failed in that project. But just have a look at any other project. e.g. Look at apetito, look at Garden Unique.

Made a last upload and refresh for the fluid network! Thank you all very much for your appreciation and comments so far. I really hope gaining your votes!

I keep looking at this challenge and have given it some thought, but am unable to get beyond many of the ideas I am seeing here in the current entries.
I am an architect who has recently been let go from an architecture firm. It is a mid sized firm, renting twice as much space as it should and floundering miserably in the new economy. Architects are especially at risk of lagging behind in technology and communication techniques and are not the best business people. My wife and I have started our own architecture company because it is something that we always wanted to do but also because there are virtually no openings in firms for someone at my level. We are scared and excited and know we need to come up with a way of working that capitalizes on new technology. I digress, but I keep thinking that there has to be a way where designers (creatives) can operate on a more independent level while also having opportunities to work with other creatives. The technologies of the day allow for this kind of networking. Interacting on a platform like Jovoto is an interesting way to get a quick bang of ideas and feedback.
A big problem that I am seeing is how to assign responsibility and liability to a virtual team. This is a bigger concern for architectural projects. Also, how are virtual employees progress tracked and paychecks calculated? I think that is what is being asked here. The problem is, I just don't know. I am curious to see what the outcome is. I am curious why there are no cash prizes for this one? I also find it interesting that this project is the only open available at the moment.

Skorbich, that is an idea right there! Creatives set up as small businesses, collaborating digitally. A LinkedIn for small businesses rather than persons maybe?

Also, I am sorry to hear you lost your job and hope your new business will flourish...

Keep the designing virtual( work from home). The employees can log on to a common network computer. Use local talent with whom you can meet on a set time table for feedback and for payments, control etc. If you were layed off there would be others in your city who were layed off , who will be willing to be part of a system you create. If some of the workers are far away . Insist on vetting them through a trial period/small project before becoming part of the team you create. That way you know their speed of working, quality etc. Their resume would give you a good idea about how much responsibility they have handled before.. and how much to pay. Pay as you would pay yourself if you worked a certain number hours with the various experience you have. You would know the salaries of your juniors also.

Tracking progress is possible if the main file is in a central computer ( yours) and is accessed by multiple people via network. I think in autocad xref can be used so the files get updated automatically for everyone.. This is used in CG movies where multiple people work on sections of same file ( different software) . The file would always be saved to your computer no matter where they are working from. You can look at the latest version at all times as administrator. Always ensure there are spare backup files for each day / half day which are non accessible by others to avoid complete accidental deletion. There are support sites for small business with lots of information regarding legalities and business practices etc available online. Hope it helps and good luck for your new firm..

Skorbich, maybe a network or computer person is best for knowing more about how to get the network connected...maybe cloud computing would need to be involved if people are far away. I was mentioning it in general.

the big architecture jobs (govt contracts, public spaces, etc.)have always been bid as "compeitions". so the architecture industry actually pioneered what other industries are only starting to do online as public contests. the important difference is that the architecture bids were invitation only, and the contestants were preselected for compatibility with the client and task. and in most cases, the work on spec, was paid for with a small honorary stipend as a gesture of good faith.

Thanks for the feedback.
Another challenge would be to be able to create a team that can go for public (government) work. Public agencies always require extensive firm information and history and it will be interesting to see if it would be possible to convince them to work with a virtual firm. So, the question might be... How do you create a firm (or agency) that is able to market itself as having the best and the brightest creatives, is responsible and will be there for the duration of the project? Why would a public entity hire a virtual firm over a traditional, fixed in place firm?

30 days ago JJelden wrote this: »If some of you come up with striking ideas, I am absolutely certain that some of my partners as well as a lot of other agency leaders who are following this discussion will start to collaborate with you. But of course, this is a matter of mutual trust. So let me talk to my partners and let at least some say hi. But this may take 2-3 days.

Even before the idea competition started we have been thinking and talking a lot with Jovoto about other kinds of rewards, that are non-cash. But as these need to work for participants around the globe, it is not so easy to announce them in advance. We are working on that one! Please be patient and trust us to be fair.«

And where are the "good news"? :D

Did you really expect good news?

Yes! I was patient and I trusted them to be fair... ;-)

Hope springs eternal. :) (Die Hoffnung stirbt zuletzt.)

:-)))))

Hey DENKdifferent Two agencies participated by giving comments on ideas. As the competition is not over yet we have not revealed anything about rewards yet. Be sure there is something to come soon!

Congrats to "ALL" and the winners of course.................. ;-)

CONGRATS TO ALL THAT PUT EFFORT, HEART AND MIND INTO THIS OPEN ZONE!!!

I THINK THE FUTURE IS IN OUR HANDS AS COLLABORATIVE CREATIVES!!!

SEEMS THAT DEFINITELY WE "WORLDWIDE COLLABORATIVE CREATIVES" ARE A THREAD FOR CLASSIC AND COMMON AGENCIES CAUSE WE ARE NOT TAKING THEIR "RULES" AS OUR OWN!!!

WE KNOW THAT COLLABORATION WILL LEAD THE FUTURE OF CREATIVITY(EVEN FROM OUTSIDE AS FEEDBACKS SUGGESTION AND SHARING KNOWLEDGE)!!!

I WOULD IT LIKE TO RECEIVED SOME FEEDBACK FROM ALL THE JURY MEMBERS BUT THEY LOOK THAT THEY DIDN'T GOT INVOLVED ON THIS IMPORTANT OPENZONE!!!

I REALLY THANKS BASTIAN(OUR COMMUNITY CEO & CO-FOUNDER) FOR SUPPORTING THE NEW IDEAS AND VISIONS THAT CAN TAKE US STEPS FORWARD AS A CREATIVE COMMUNITY!!!

THANKS TO ALL JOVOTANS THAT SUPPORTS THE CLOUDSTORM IDEA!!! OUR COMMUNITY CAN ACCOMPLISH REALLY BIG AND IMPORTANT TASKS FOR HUMANKIND!!!

I DON'T KNOW IF AGENCIES WILL SURVIVE!!!

BUT I'M SURE WE ALL CREATIVE WILL DO IT!!! CONNECTED, COLLABORATING AND SHARING KNOWLEDGE!!!

HOPE ALL THE PEOPLE INVOLVED CAN CONTINUE THIS AT COLLABORATION LABS AND START CROWDFOUNDING PROJECTS TO BECOME TRUE THE IDEAS FOR THE FUTURE OF CREATIVITY!!!

THAAAAAAAAAAAANKS A LOT FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!!

:)

another example of the sycophantic ass licking which is jovoto.

Hey everyone First of all, I would like to thank you all for participating in this idea storm. Together we had a very rich discussion and unearthed some great ideas.

As promised we would like to reward your ideas and contributions. So far we thought mostly about non-monetary rewards. But since we have people from many different places, this was not so easy. Jovoto and me, we finally came to the conclusion to award the winners with …. money. We have a total sum of 2,500 EUR. And we would like to reward you as followed:

Xavier wins 500,- EUR as the community winner. Thank you very much!

All further mentions will receive 400,- EUR each:

DENKdifferent - AGENCIES: Give mothers a chance!!! Your initiative for the mothers is most important. The idea itself is not fully new. I know agencies who experiment quite a lot around that topic. Nevertheless your approach to make it a social movement is important and needs more attention.

Jormason - the fluid network: As a coworker of yours I am familiar with the master thesis and your efforts for quite some. You have made the first step and gained real experience. That experience are invaluable for our discussion.

Kreativer - The WE System Your approach is the most extensive and elaborated concept in this contest. Fascinating is especially the way you combine the many different approaches.

AyalPinkus & DiegoPalmeira Both of you submitted a lot of good ideas. But more important is your overall engagement in the discussions. You truely enriched our discussion by your participations. That was amazing!

In order to better feature you in my work I would like to conduct an interview with you. I would like to use the interviews to quote your ideas and work in the final study.

Let me say "Thank you" to Bastian, Conradin & Britta as well for supporting my research project. Working with you is a pleasure!

THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOO MUCH DEAR JJelden FOR THE PRIZE!!! IT REALLY MEANS A LOOOOOOOOT!!! I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE CLOUDSTORM IDEA, ANY FEEDBACK...? WHAT WAS THE REAL INTENTION ON THIS PROJECT... TO COMPLETE A RESEARCH TO GET SOME NEW CONCLUSIONS OR TO TRY TO IMPLEMENT SOME GREAT HINTS FROM THIS IDEAS?... WHAT IS REALLY AN AGENCY WORLWIDE IN THIS TIMES?... WHICH POINT OF VIEW SHOULD BE TAKEN AS MOST IMPORTANT?... AGENCIES OWNERS, CREATIVES OR CLIENTS?... CAUSE EACH OF THEM HAVE TOTALLY DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW AND NEEDS?... IS THIS PROJECT WILL CONTINUE AT YOUR WEBSITE OR MORE RESEARCH THESIS?... I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE FUTURE OF YOUR WORK RELATED TO THIS PROJECT... WAS A PLEASURE TO BE PART OF THIS PROCESS!!! I REALLY APPRECIATE IT!!! THAAAAAAAANKS JJelden!!! :)

Thanks, guys! It was quite fun and inspirational :)

Ooph, just saw this message. Agree with Diego, had a lot of fun on this one and I learned a lot myself.

Thanks indeed!

@Britta, When are we going to receive our money prize?!!! :)

ah cool !!!! congrats to the jury winners!

This is great! Thank you very much and thank all of you discussing this topic, it was a great experience talking to likeminded people here at jovoto!

CONGRAAAAAATS TO ALL THE JURY PRIZE WINNERS!!! :)

Wooooow! This is great! To wait for has been worth it :D It would be great if you can change the agencies mindset with your study a little bit and they will give mothers more chances! And my other proposal "collective chicken farm" is a way they can try... Just a thought :-) Thank you so much for the price money! And congrats to all other winners! I hope, all of you included working moms in your ideas... :)

Congrats to all the jury winners : )

A BIG CONGRATS TO ALL WINNERS!!! :-))))))

AND A SPECIAL CONGRATS TO DENKdifferent!

Please create also shirts for working dads I would buy one. :-)

Congrats to the jury winners!

Congrats to all winners and great stuff from everyone who contributed!

Woohaa ...... back to Hamburg, just received the message. Great! Thank you very much @all!

@Britta, When are we going to receive our money prize?!!! :)

Hey Xavier, as soon as I know I will come back to you!

Thanks a lot dear Britta!!! Hope it would be soon!!! :)

I think a ranking and karma for the winners would be great. :-) They spent a lot of time. :-)

Any news about the prize?!!!...

2 MONTHS SINCE THE PRIZE WAS ANNOUNCED, NO NEWS, NO MONEY, I'M WORRIED!!! ANYONE CAN GIVE US A SIGN OF WHEN WE'LL RECEIVE OUR PRIZE?!!! ?

Hey Xavier, sorry that is takes so long. I am in charge here. I also wrote you a PM.

Dear winners, Sorry for the delay, the prize money will be paid out this monday.

Is the project not available in english?